The
World over: Cardinal Ratzinger interview
Raymond
Arroyo with Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
The following
is a transcript of the interview by EWTN News Director Raymond
Arroyo of Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, which first aired on
EWTN on 5 September 2003. Cardinal Ratzinger is the Prefect
of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, an office
to which he was appointed by Pope John Paul II in 1981.
Introduction
Raymond:
I’m Raymond
Arroyo. He may have
the toughest job in the Church.
He is the Vatican's chief protector and promoter
of Catholic doctrine, second in power only to the Pope,
and certainly one of the most important men in the Roman
Catholic Church today. Yet,
after 22 years, as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine
of Faith, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has assiduously avoided
interviews. But tonight,
for the first time in an exclusive interview, he sits down
with me to discuss the future of the Church, the clerical
sexual abuse scandal, and the papacy of John Paul II.
He also talks for the first time about the persistent
rumors that he may retire. We talked with the Cardinal several weeks ago
in Rome.
Interview
Raymond:
First of all, Your Eminence, thank you for having us here.
It’s a great honor to be with you.
In your book, God And The World, you talk about a
crisis of faith. And
you, more than anyone, should know the state of this Church. You get reports every day. Where does this crisis of faith stand now?
Are things improving?
Cardinal: Yes,
it’s improving in a certain sense. Also, our situation generally, I think the situation
of the Western World, is an increasing of relativism, the
idea all is equal and we do not know anything clear about
God; and so, all faiths are equal and so on.
This is a general impression in the world of today
and this also is temptation for us as Christians. But, I think on the other hand, in many people
there is a real desire to have concrete contact with Christ,
with the presence of Our Lord.
So, I would say the youth of the Church is improving
the situation because they will not simply do what all people
are doing; so really be in contact with the Lord and sharing
the faith of the Church.
So, I would say, generally the situation of the Western
World is not improving about the faith, but in the Church,
the youth of the Church, we can see that there is a new
beginning.
Raymond: Signs
of hope there that are being planted.
Cardinal: Yes.
Raymond: Let's
talk for moment about the Second Vatican Council, and particularly
the implementation of the Council. You have written so much about this, and talked
so much about this. For
people of my generation, I suppose the thing that most stands
out from the faith too of our fathers and grandfathers is
the liturgy, the Mass. You've spoken about the reform of the reform,
reforming the reform. How
do you see that actuating?
How do you see it concretely taking shape as we move
forward?
Cardinal: Generally,
I would say it was not well implemented; the liturgical
reform, because it was a general idea. Now, liturgy is a thing of the community.
The community is representing itself and so with
the creativity of the priest or of the other groups they
will create their own liturgies.
It is, more the presence of their own experiences
and ideas than meeting with the Presence of the Lord in
the church. And with
this creativity and self-presentation of the community is
disappearing the essence of liturgy.
Because in essence we can go over our own experiences
and to receive what is not from our experience, but is a
gift of God. And
so, I think we have to restore not so much certain ceremonies,
but the essential idea of liturgy – to understand
in liturgy, we are not representing ourselves, but we receive
the grace of the presence of the Lord with the Church of
the heaven and of the earth.
And the universality of the liturgy, it seems to
me, is essential. Definition of liturgy and restoring this idea
would also help to be more obedient to the norms, not as
a juridical positivism, but really as sharing, participating
what is given to us from the Lord in the Church.
Raymond: And
that sense of sacrifice and worship that you’ve talked
about so eloquently, how do you see that being restored
concretely? Will we see a return to the ad orientem posture,
facing the East, the priest facing away from the people
during the Canon, a return to the Latin, more Latin in the
Mass?
Cardinal: Versus
orientem, I would say could be a help because it is really
a tradition from the Apostolic time, and it’s not
only a norm, but it’s an expression also of the cosmical
dimension and of the historical dimension of the liturgy.
We are celebrating with the cosmos, with the world.
It’s the direction of the future of the world,
of our history represented in the sun and in the cosmical
realities. I think today this new discovering of our relation
with the created world can be understood also from the people,
better than perhaps 20 years ago.
And also, it’s a common direction – priest
and people are in common oriented to the Lord.
So, I think it could be a help.
Always external gestures are not simply a remedy
in itself, but could be a help because it’s a very
classical interpretation of what is the direction of the
liturgy. Generally, I think it was good to translate
the liturgy in the spoken languages because we will understand
it; we will participate also with our thinking.
But a stronger presence of some elements of Latin
would be helpful to give the universal dimension, to give
the possibilities that in all the parts of the world we
can see “I am in the same Church.”
So generally, popular language is …
Raymond: A good
thing.
Cardinal: …a
solution. But some
presence of Latin could be helpful to have more experience
of universality.
Raymond: I know
you are working on those new liturgical, this new liturgical
piece of legislation that the Pope previewed in his encyclical
On the Eucharist. We’ve
been hearing a great deal from Cardinal Arinze and in some
publications that this may be a precursor to a universal
indult for the Tridentine Mass. Do you foresee that at all?
Cardinal: I
would distinguish between the future document and the problem
of indults. The future
document is not a new legislation but interpretation of
given norms. So, we have only to interpret or clarify what
is abuse and what is really the application of the liturgy. In a sense, it is a very limited, the possibility
of this document – a clarification of abuses, and
clarification of norms, at this moment.
The other is a different problem.
I think generally, the old liturgy was never prohibited.
We need only norms how in peace, apply it so that
the reformed liturgy is the normal liturgy of the community
of the Church, but the other is always a valid use of the
Church can be used but in obedience to the bishops and the
Holy Father.
Raymond: Um
hum. And that’s
a great challenge, I know, in some parts of the Church. And other parts of the Church, they’ve
embraced the Pope’s call for more frequent practice
of the old Mass.
Cardinal: Yes.
I think it’s important to be open to this possibility
and to demonstrate also the continuity of the Church.
We are today, not another Church as of 500 years
ago. It’s always
the same Church. It
was at one time holy, for the Church is always holy, for
the Church it is not in another time an impossible thing.
Raymond: Right.
Some have suggested, Your Eminence, that there is
a de facto schism in the Church today.
Because many, who call themselves Catholic, many
who were born and baptized Catholic, simply don’t
believe nor live out the fullness of the faith.
How do we bring them back?
How do we reach them in this cultural reality?
Cardinal:
I would say this is a permanent pastoral problem to help
that all people can really share the faith of the Church
authentically. And
it was always a problem that the faith of many persons was
deficient and insufficient. Today it is clear that with
all the …
Raymond: Relativism?
Cardinal: …relativism
and so its problem is as strong as in past times.
And so is the problem of catechization and evangelization
is much more difficult as in different times.
I think the first point is a good catechesis in the
preparation to the faith, in education to the faith, that
really the faith of the Church is authentically present. And I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church
is a great help to see universally what is really the faith
of the Church and what is not.
And the new compendium we are preparing will be another
help to make more accessible the great catechism in a practical
work of catechization. This is the first point – education in
the faith and really have the common ground present. And the other point is also the prediction that in homilies we can really year-by-year
learn what is the faith, not only some or always the same
ideas. I think it
is a real danger that in the homilies priests and also bishops
could repeat essentially their preferred ideas and not present
the completeness of the faith. So I think a renewal also of the predication
is also very important.
The liturgy is living catechesis.
I think so much is dependent from authentic liturgies,
not only as I said, appearing as the ideas and experience
of this community, but is a representation of the faith
of the Church. You
can see the Sacrifice of Christ is here and the Triune God
is in contact with us and we with Him, and so on.
Liturgy is very important. And so, also is to deepen the prayer in the
Church. I think the
way to learn God, is prayer.
And a school of prayers are very essential, I think.
With a concrete relation of prayer, we learn about
God and we learn the Church. And so, it’s important to have prayer
books representing really the deepness of our faith.
So, I think even the works of Christian charity are
important to give concreteness to our faith, because faith
is not only an idea, not only a theory, but it is also a
living reality.
Raymond: Um
hum. And that experience,
you know having that experience I think, when you talked
about the Mass…
Cardinal: Um
hum.
Raymond: …that,
that truly is the contact, if you will, between God and
man …
Cardinal: Yes.
Yes.
Raymond:
… in such a powerful way, when they interact.
Talk for a moment about the New Springtime.
The Pope has talked a great deal about the New Springtime
and you, yourself have laid out your own ideas.
Your vision is a little different from some. Some see the numbers growing and everybody believing
and dancing hand-in-hand (the Cardinal chuckles) into the
millennium. You see
a different picture. Tell
us what that picture involves.
How do you see this Springtime evolving?
Cardinal: As
I do not exclude even this dancing hand-in-hand, but this
is only one moment. And
my idea is that really the springtime of the Church will
not say that we will have in a near time buses of conversions,
that all peoples of the world will be converted to Catholicism.
This is not the way of God.
The essential things in history begin always with
the small, more convinced communities.
So, the Church begins with the 12 Apostles.
And even the Church of St. Paul diffused in the Mediterranean
are little communities, but this community in itself is
the future of the world, because we have the truth and the
force of conviction. So,
I think also today it should be an error to think now or
in 10 years with the new springtime, all people will be
Catholic. This is
not our future, nor our expectation. But we will have really convinced communities
with élan of the faith, no?
This is springtime — a new life in very convinced
persons with joy of the faith.
Raymond: But,
smaller numbers? In the macro?
Cardinal: Smaller
numbers, I think. But from these small numbers we will have a
radiation of joy in the world.
And so, it’s an attraction, as it was in the
old Church. Even when Constantine made Christianity the
public religion, there were a small number of percentage
at this time; but it was clear, this is the future.
So we can live in the future, just give us a way
in a different future. And so, I would say, if we have young people
really with the joy of the faith and this radiation of this
joy of the faith, this will show to the world, “Even
if I cannot share it, even if I cannot convert it at this
moment, here is the way to live for tomorrow.”
Raymond: Um
hum. Do you see the
various movements in the Church as part of that ongoing
conversion? And is there a danger there, that we get into
this competitive Factionalism, if you will, in the Church
that we all have to be a part of it if we are going to be
a serious Catholic?
Cardinal: Yes,
on the on hand, I am really a friend of movements –
Communione e Liberazione, Focolare, and the Charismatic
Renewal. I think
this is a sign of the Springtime and of the presence of
the Holy Spirit, today will give new charisms and so on.
This is for me really a great hope that not with
organization from authorities, but really it is the force
of the Holy Spirit present in the people.
We have movements and new beginnings of the faith,
new forms of the faith. On the other hand, I think it is
important that these movements are not closed in themselves
and absolutized; but have to understand that even if I’m
convinced this is the way, I have to accept we are one way
and not the way, and we have to be open for the others,
in communion with the others.
And essentially we have to be really present and
even obedient to the common Church in presence with the
bishops and the Pope. Only
with this openness to not be absolutized with its ideas
and to be in service of the common Church, of the Universal
Church, can be really a way for tomorrow.
Raymond:
Your Eminence, I want to ask a few personal questions,
if you’ll permit me? You’ve written most recently in the book,
God And The World, you’ve said, and called this post
as Prefect at the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith,
you’ve said, “This is my most uncomfortable
post.” (Cardinal
chuckles) What do you mean by that?
Cardinal: Yes,
it’s in many senses it’s uncomfortable. We have essentially and often to do with all
the problems of the Church – problems of relativism,
of heresies, of unacceptable theologies, difficult theologians
and so on. Also with the disciplinary cases, also problem
of pedophiles is our problem.
We are really in this Congregation confronted with
the most difficult aspects of the life of the Church today.
And so, also, clearly attacked as inquisition on
what you better know than I…
Raymond:
Sure. Sure.
Cardinal:
…from the one hand. But from the other hand, I have to answer to
what I say in this book.
Also everyday I experience that people are thankful
saying, “Yes, the Church has an identity, has a continuity,
the faith is real and present also today and is also today
possible.” And
when I go in St. Peter’s Square and so on, I can see
everyday people from different parts of the world knowing
me and saying, “Thank you, Father.
We are thankful that you are doing this difficult
job, because this is helping us.”
Even many Protestant friends say to me, “What
you are doing is helpful also for us, because it is defending
also our faith and the presence of the faith in Christ. We need an instance as yours, even if we are
not sharing all what you are saying.
But it’s also for us helpful to see we have
this continuing defense of the faith and this is in encouraging
to continue in the faith, and to live it.” And in
this days an Orthodox delegation said to me, “What
you are doing is good is also for our faith good,”
So, we have an Ecumenical dimension not so often…
Raymond: Appreciated.
Cardinal:
…appreciated.
Raymond:
Your Eminence, the other thing I – and this is a total
personal appraisal – because of my post, and I cover
the Church. I travel about the World, and talk to so many
people, I’m sure nothing approaching the groups of
people you talk to, and the things you encounter.
And I have to tell you honestly, the recent days
have been something of a trial of faith for me, and I know
for some of my colleagues.
How do you weather what I’m sure is a temptation
to despair at times, considering the cases you examine and
the personalities you encounter at times?
Cardinal: Yes.
I think we have to remember that Our Lord said to us that
in, I know this in Italiano,…
(The answer is completely in Italian.
Translation follows)
Our Lord told us: ¨Within the fields of the Church,
there will be not only wheat but chaff – from the
seas of the world you will take not only fish but also unacceptable
things’. Therefore, He announces to us a community,
a Church in which scandals and sinners will be present.
We must remember that St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles,
was a great sinner, and yet the Lord wanted precisely the
sinner Peter as the rock of the Church. Thus He has already
indicated to us not to expect great saints of all the Popes
– we must also expect there to be sinners among them.
He announces to us that in the fields of the Church
there will be much chaff. This sense should not surprise
us if we consider all of Church history. There have been
other times at least as difficult as ours with scandals,
etc. All we have to do is think of the ninth century,
the tenth century, the Renaissance.
Therefore, looking at the words of the Lord, at the
history of the Church, we can relativize today’s scandals.
We suffer. We must suffer because they – that is
the scandals – made so many people suffer, and here
we are thinking of the victims. Certainly we must do all
we can to avoid that these things happen in the future.
But on the other hand, we know that the Lord –
and this is the essence of the Church – the Lord sat
at the table with sinners.
This is the definition of the Church:
The Lord sits at the table with sinners. Therefore,
we cannot be amazed if it is like this.
We cannot despair. On the contrary, the Lord said: “I AM not here only for the just, but for sinners.”
We must feel certain that the Lord truly - even today
– seeks sinners in order to save us.
Raymond:
....Over the past couple of years, many have diagnosed the
crisis of sexual abuse plaguing the Church in the U.S. Now
the Vatican’s chief theologian identifies what he
considers the root causes of the sexual abuse scandals –
more of our exclusive interview with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.
Raymond: You,
I know, have been closely involved with the continuing crisis
in the United States, trying to bring closure a healing
in the wake of terrible sexual abuse in the United States.
My question is, “What do you identify as the root
causes of this crisis that we continue to live through in
the United States?”
Cardinal: I
will distinguish perhaps between 2 different elements –
a general element and a specific element of this time and
of this scandal of today.
The general element is, as I said, is a weakness
of human beings, even of priests. Never will we have all this end, but always
the temptations of human beings are present also for the
priests. So always we have to accept that. Even in the communion of priests and bishops,
we have to know that these things can happen.
The second point is more specific, why at this time
it was so often and it was more than in past times.
And I think the essential point is the weakness of
faith, because only if I am really in confidence personally
with the Lord; if the Lord is for me, not an idea, but the
Person of my deepest friendship; if I know personally the
Lord and be in contact of love everyday in the Lord, if
for me faith is the reality. It is the ground of my life; it is a most sure
of reality, and not some possibility – in this case,
if I am really convinced and really in contact of love with
the Lord, the Lord will help me in these temptations and
I can even win what seems impossible. If the faith is not everyday realized, if the
faith is weakened and begins only to be an hypothesis, so
it’s not a fundamental of your life and so begins
all these problems. So,
I would say the essential point is for me, weakness of the
faith and not a sufficient presence of the faith in the
Church. I think it was the problem of the last 40, 50
years. That the idea
was we have common ideas with all the world and that faith
is very personal and a universal gift of the Lord was not
so present. So, I
think the first point is re-learn, re-convert to a deepened
faith and education in the faith.
I think also that in the last perhaps 40, 50 years,
it was not so clear the validity of the moral teaching of
the Church. We had
so many masters in the Church that teach in other ways,
and said, “No, this is not a sin.
This is not a sin. This is common and what is average of doing
is also permitted.”
And with this idea, we do not have a clear moral
teaching. We have
to learn from the normal actions of human beings. So, we also will be in the normal actions and
even …
Raymond: Fall
prey unto the things of the world.
Cardinal: Yes.
Yes. Yes. So, I think that 2 things are essential –
conversion to a profound and deep faith with the life of
prayer and the sacraments, and clear moral teaching and
conviction of these teachings that the Church, has the Holy
Spirit and can give this way.
Raymond:
What would you say to the faithful, who in the United States
are so despondent at this hour, and not sure who to look
to? What would you say to them?
Cardinal: Yes.
On the one hand, look to the Lord is the first point.
He is always present and He’s always near to
us. Look also to the saints of all the times, and
so find in our times the saints.
The humble, faithful persons are present, perhaps
not so visible because they are not appearing on the television.
But the humble, praying people are present today
and this is a confidence of the Church and of all our people
find these people, finds that with all the problems of today,
the Church has not disappeared; but is continuing, especially
in not so visible personalities.
So, I think this is essential – find the Lord,
find the saints of the times, but also find the not canonized,
simple persons who are really in the heart of the Church.
Raymond: Your
Eminence, in the United States, the Bishops’ Conference
has largely taken the lead, the National Conference in trying
to heal and put an end to this crisis.
Because there is such a lack of confidence, if you
will, among the faithful in their episcopacy, do you believe
the Bishops’ Conference to be the best instrument
of that healing at this point?
Cardinal: This
is a difficult question, as you know.
Raymond: That’s
why I ask it. (Both laugh)
Cardinal: On
the one hand, I would say a coordination between the bishops
is certainly necessary because United States are one great
continent and it’s impossible that one bishop has
the same discipline as another.
So, a coordination is absolutely necessary.
In this sense, a coordination between the bishops
and common norm is important to guarantee also equality
in the different dioceses.
I think it is clear the personal responsibility of
the bishop is fundamental for the Church.
And perhaps anonymity of the Bishops’ Conference
can be a danger for the Church. Nobody is personally immediately responsible.
It was always the conference and you do not know
where or who is the conference. In the sense, I think, a good relation between
the two realities is necessary.
On the one hand, the cooperation, and the collegiality
and so is the equality of the right and norms.
From the other, it is a personal responsibility of
the bishops that I can know, “This is my part, now,
and I am responsible.”
And he takes in hand the responsibility in wonderful,
but also in difficult things.
Raymond:
Right. Right. Because
it is difficult for the children of the Church to embrace
a father if you don’t know who he is.
(chuckle)
Cardinal: That’s
clear. It’s
a figure of a bishop who is courageously present.
Raymond: Very
important. In God And The World, you reflect a little on
Dominus Jesus, a document released in 2000. It was greeted with some controversy, because
in it you said, “God did not revoke His covenant to
the Israeli people, or the people of Israel, rather; but
that Jesus is the Messiah for everyone and therefore, conversion
was still necessary, or should be a possibility.” How do you reconcile those two ideas?
Cardinal: Perhaps,
it’s not our possibility to reconcile it, to leave
it to God. Because
two things are very clear in the Holy Scripture.
In the Letter of St. Paul to the Romans, he clearly
says, “The fidelity of God is absolutely clear. He
is faithful to His promises.” And so, the people of Abraham are always God’s
people, on the one hand.
And he says also clearly, “All Israel will
be saved.” But,
it’s also clear that Jesus is the Savior, not only
of the other peoples, He is a Jew and He is the Savior,
especially of His Own people.” St. Bernard of Clairvaux said, “God saved,
reserved for Himself, the salvation of Israel.
He will do it in His Own Person.”
And so, we have to leave it to God’s Self,
see, convinced and knowing that Christ is Savior of all
of His Own people, and of all people. But how He will do it is in God’s Hand.
Raymond:
But it is the Church’s responsibility to make the
Gospel available, and the message available to the Jewish
people.
Cardinal: Yes.
It is absolutely important to make accessible the
Gospel for all people and also understandable for Jewish
people. I do not
know if you perhaps have seen the new book of Cardinal Lustiger
where he relates a promise and in a very touching way describes
his own experience, and shows how we can understand the
Old Testament is speaking of Christ and to also possibly
to make accessible and available that in their own holy
books of Israel, Christ is speaking at present.
So, this is really a duty of the Church to make this
available and to make understandable that He is the Savior,
even of His Own people.
Raymond: And
I will remind our audience Cardinal Lustiger, of course,
the Cardinal of Paris. and a Jewish convert, a convert from
Judaism. Let’s
talk for a moment, you’ve discussed often the nature
of sexuality and that it finds it’s home in the context
of marriage. This
today is a very contested notion and a very contested teaching. How does the Church bring that message into
a culture that – we now have homosexual marriages
being legalized, invitro fertilization and technologies
of reproduction outside of the marital act – how do
you bring this teaching to this culture?
Cardinal: You
cannot think that I now in on minute could clarify (Raymond
laughs) what so many people in great books could not clarify?
But, I think it is always essential that the nature
of human being is given and we understand that men and women
are created one to the other.
This is a creational relation and reflecting also,
all what nature has given that is for the continuation of
the human generation. It is essential that God created men and women
to be one, as it is said in the first chapters of the Bible. So, I think even if our culture is against marriage
as essential form of relations between human beings, between
women and men. I
think our nature is always present and we can understand
it, if we will understand it. I think these other things are a counter-culture
and we can understand this is not in conformity with what
is internal indication of our beings.
I hope it is possible, in a sincere and open dialog
with the people, to understand even today that our nature
is this: man and
woman are created one for the other.
Raymond: Um
hum. One of your
jobs here at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
is investigating the Marian apparitions that occur in history
and in our present age.
You, in 2000, released the so-called, “Third
Secret of Fatima.”
And part of that revelation was that there would
be a hail of bullets, the Pope would fall and appear to
be dead. The Congregation
interpreted that as the assassination attempt on his Holiness,
John Paul II. Is
it possible – and I’ve gotten many letters asking
me to ask this question – is it possible that this
could point to a future Pope?
Cardinal: We
cannot exclude that this is clear. Normally, the private visions are limited to
the next generation, and even Lucia, and all those in Fatima
were convinced that in the time of one generation this would
be realized. So, the immediate content of the vision is this,
I would say. And
it is expressed in a vision in an apocalyptic language.
It is clear in all the visions, we do not have an
historical language, as a report on television, that we
have a visionary, symbolic language. We can understand this is indeed an indication
of the crisis of the Church in the second part of the last
century and in our time.
But, even if the immediate sense of this prophecy,
this vision is always in the next generations; it has also
sense for future times. We cannot exclude – even I would say,
we have to wait for, that even in other times we’ll
have similar crises of the Church and perhaps also similar
attacks to a Pope.
Raymond:
Um hum. Um hum. Let’s
hope for a moment about this Pope. You’ve worked so closely with him, for
these 21 years – I can’t believe it!
Give me your appraisal of his contribution to the
Church and how he has shaped this Papacy, and the Papacy
going forward?
Cardinal: Yes,
it has a political dimension, it has a more spiritual dimension,
a real dimension of this Papacy. In the political dimension as we all know, he
contributed essentially to the break down of the Communistic
governments in Eastern Europe.
And he created – and here we are arriving at
the spiritual dimension – his relation with Israel,
also, and a new engagement for the poor people of the world.
This is one of the essential dimensions that he has
revealed and re-enforced the engagement of the charity of
the Church of the people for the suffering parts of the
world. But, we have
a more spiritual dimension is his deep faith with his love
to the Lord and his love to the Mother Mary, the Mother
of God and with his way of prayer, with his visible merging
in the presence of the Lord. He gave a new beginning, a new zeal for the
Church for young people, especially, to see, “Yes,
we can pray today; Christ Who is present today.”
So, I think that with all his trips in the world,
with his preaching and with his writings, he deepens the
faith and he renews the faith, and especially he was the
initiator of the youth movement, I would say of the new
“springtime of the Church” in the sense that
young people can find, “Yes, we can live in this way.
Christ is present.
And this is more important than all the problems
of the faith and of our moral life, to have the Lord and
to have so in the Lord’s way.”
And so, the a renewal of our faith and of the sacramental
life, I think, is essential of what this Pope has done.
Raymond: What
about his suffering, the suffering we’ve seen played
out in this man’s body before the world?
What is the contribution of that in your estimation?
Cardinal: I
think this is very important in our time, where only active
personalities and personalities of sport, and so on, of
youth. The idea is to be young and beautiful; to show
us that even a suffering old man can be an important contribution
to the life of the people.
His suffering is in communion with the suffering
of Christ and perhaps with his suffering we can better understand
that the suffering of Christ has redeemed the world –
in giving himself in suffering, giving up something, giving
up some activities sometime but that really himself is the
presence of the force of the deeper dimensions of human beings. We can learn from him that suffering and the
gift of himself is an essential gift we need in our time.
Raymond: You’ve
been here for 21 years in this post, and I’ve read
in many reports you wanted to retire several times. Why are you still here? (Both chuckle)
Cardinal: Yes,
I had desired to retire in 1991, 1996 and 2001 because I
have studied the idea.
I could write some books and return to my studies
as Cardinal Martini did. So, it was my idea to do the same thing. But on the other hand, seeing the suffering
Pope, I cannot say to the Pope, “I will retire.
I will write my books.”
(Both chuckle) Seeing
him, how he is giving himself, I have to continue.
Raymond: My
final question, what do you see, your Eminence, as the great
danger and the great hope in the Church today?
Cardinal:
I see the great danger is that we would be only a social
association and not founded in the faith of the Lord.
For the first moment, it seems important that only
what we are doing and the faith appears not so important.
But if the faith disappears, all the other things
are discomposed, as we have seen. So, I think there is a danger at this
time with all these activities and external visions is to
underestimate the importance of faith and to lose the faith,
even a Church where the faith would not be so essential.
Raymond: Right.
Cardinal: So,
the great hope is that the Lord, is we’ll see a new
presence of the Lord. We
can see that the sacramental presence of the Lord in the
Eucharist is an essential gift for us and give us also the
possibility to love the others and to work for the others.
I think the new presence of the Eucharistic Christ
and the new love for Christ and Christ present in the Eucharist
is the most encouraging element of our time.
Raymond: We’d
like to thank Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and his staff for
accommodating the interview.
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