Meeting between Pope Benedict XVI and the Lefebvrists could initiate path towards reconciliation

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Comments: 46

Vatican City, Aug 23, 2005 / 12:00 am (CNA).- The schismatic branch created by the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre might begin path to return to the heart of the Catholic Church during next encounter that will be held by Pope Benedict XV, with the current schismatic leader, Bernard Fellay.

No precise date has been confirmed for the meeting, but it will take place at the papal residence in Caster Gandolfo before the end of this summer.

Fellay, general superior of the “Saint Pius X society”-the official name of the group of four bishops, priests and lay faithful schismatic-was scheduled to meet with the Pontiff, without any form of publicity, but the news “filtered” for the indiscretion of one the bishops ordained by Lefebvre without the Pope’s approval in 1988.

The schismatic bishop Richard Williamson send a “confidential” letter to his faithful informing them that the Pope had acceded to a demand of meeting requested by Fellay.

The Pope will receive Fellay, along with Father Arnaud Sélégny, general secretary of the society on August 29^th, although the date hasn’t been confirmed by the Holy See.

According to sources close to the Society, Fellay will present two demands to Pope Benedict in order to return to full communion with the Church: the withdrawal of the excommunication and the possibility to celebrate the Saint Pius V mass in Latin in any part of the world without having to ask for permission of local ecclesiastical authorities, as it is currently required by Church norms.

Comments: 46

Subscriber comments:

Published by: John
Brea California U.S.A. 11/21/2006 11:19 AM EST

If and when the Holy Father lifts the "de Facto" and illigal prohibition on the Tridentine liturgy with the pending Motu Proprio and reigns in the revisionist clerics in the US, France Holland, Canada and Germany, when the dubious excommunication of Archbishop LeFevre and the four Bishops of SSPX is resolved, when all latin rite priests need no ones "permission" to celebrate the ancient liturgy, when Catholic youth are again exposed to the Latin rite of 17oo yrs. maybe, just maybe the priests of SSPX will be regularized with Rome. Yet the other side of the coin as history has born out so many time, the longer the irregularities continue, the longer the seperation between movements such as SSPX & yes, even sedevacantists continue the greater the danger of permanent schism between the warring parties. This is bore out with Schismatics like the Old Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and the 16th century apostasy that is called "protestantism.All MUST be one in Jesus Christ as he so wished and the hardening of hearts between the Society of St. Pius 10 Must be overcome. One step in that area is the overdue chastisment of Leftist revisionist clerics like Mahoney in Los angelas, Brown in Orange Cty Ca,Daneel in Belgiun and the coterie of reactionary bihops and priests in France. There was a Catholic Church before vatican 2.-Shalom

Published by: Wayne Phelps
Orlando, Fl., USA 02/14/2006 01:51 AM EST

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath". Latin, German, English---what differnce does it make? Jesus soke Aramaic, and he did not refer to Latinas necessary for the Sacrifice of the Mass to be valid. As we argue these petty differences, in America we see God being put in a box and all things HolY removed from public places> We better stop bickering among ourselves and tend to the evil one taking advantage of our ridiculous obsession with the "law". Jesus had the Pharisees and Sadducees to contend with. History repeats itself.As we argue, the thief is in the Tabernacle stealing the Lord. Worry about ending war, feeding the hungry and healing the sick.Your priorities are WAY OFF! Paul Hewson (BONO) of U2 is a good example of the Holy Spirit doing its job. Quit arguing and get to work. And America-----quit passing yourself off as Christian as you sellmore weaponry than any other country and cut 140 social programs to feed the war machine.

Published by: Ian Bowles
FL 09/08/2005 06:44 AM EST

V2 was a legitimate council and should be adhered to. It said the mass could be said in the vernacular, it didn't say write a new, irreverent one. My missal has the english printed right next to the latin. The abuses of V2 have so watered down the Catholic faith I feel almost Protestant. Let us pray for our holy father, that he responds to the holy spirits guidance.

Published by: J Kelly
Vancouver, BC Canada 09/05/2005 03:50 AM EST

The knee-jerk bias of the CNS is quite evident in the tone of the article. Have any of these people actually read the documents of Vatican II? None of the controversial post-Vatican II changes find any support in the actual documents. God grant his servant Benedict the strength and conviction to curtail the Modernists and support a *true* implementation of Vatican II -- that is, a return to the classical rite and proper instruction of the people so that they know what is happening.

Published by: Edgar Fernandez
Guadalajara/Mexico 08/30/2005 04:52 PM EST

This is great news! I hope we will soon be able to attend mass in Latin following the traditional Tridentine rite all over the world without restrictions for any catholic that prefers it to the new vernacular mass. I pray that this will happen soon so that thousands of young people can have access to this experience that has been unjustly denied to them.

Published by: Helen Roy
Saginaw, Michigan, U.S.A. 08/29/2005 03:14 PM EST

Everyone mentions the Tridentine Mass as being the great stumbling block separating the Vatican and the SSPX!
Nothing is further from the truth, however.
The SSPX's rejection of the validity of other churches and religions, oecumenism, freedom of conscious and religion are by far graver obstacles to any reconciliation.

Published by: Gaufridus
Baltimore, Maryland, U.S. 08/29/2005 04:13 AM EST

Let us pray that the persecution of Sacred Tradition ends with this meeting between Bp. Fellay and His Holiness the Pope.

"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."
-St. Athanasius
"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who, in time of moral crisis, maintain their neutrality."
-St. Thomas Aquinas
"When the Mass has been overthrown, we shall have overthrown the Papacy. It is in the Mass, as on a rock, that the Papacy wholly rests."
-Martin Luther
"One must resist the pope who openly destroys the Church."
-Cajetan

We are what you once were.
We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped.
If you were right then, we are right now.
If we are wrong now, you were wrong then.

Published by: Cathal O Broin
Ireland 08/26/2005 06:47 AM EST

The Act of Reparation in Fatima is a memory that I will carry for the rest of my life.

The Apparition Chapel, where the Hindu thing took place, was booked for an hour, all official. We processed there (there were thousands of people) and proceeded to say the Rosary. The four SSPX bishops proceeded to do an exorcism (I'm not sure exactly when), but we were all saying the Rosary, singing hymns in between the decades. When we were all singing after the 4th sorrowful decade, a few Norvus Ordo nuns got up from behind and started singing through microphones, in an effort to compete against us.

Then, this is very weird. When we started the fifth sorrowful mystery, they started playing plainchant and other traditional hymns etc through the shrines PA system. It was turned up full blast, such that it was all distorted. You know the sound when your speakers are driven past full. It was eerie. We were saying the last decade of the Rosary, and I have to say what the Shrine officials did was Satanic.

I cannot describe how strange and weird it was. It was far too loud, like the devil laughing. Obviously we could not pray or sing our hymns together from that point, but people tried with all their might to sing the Salve Regina, and other hymns thereafter.

I think that the crisis is worse than I ever thought, because how can we comprehend a mother wounded by her own. We offend Our Lady greatly with all this irreverence etc. I do believe that for a short time at least, I felt her horror.

Published by: Greg Sanders
Pennsylvania 08/26/2005 06:36 AM EST

Thank God for the Ruthenian Church where I have been since `1970, no V2 "Novus Ordo" here!

Published by: Joseph DeCaria
Toronto, ON 08/25/2005 10:16 PM EST

After reading all the comments here, it seems that what is lacking on ALL sides is charity, and what is bountiful is bitterness. As Paul VI observed "the smoke of Satan has entered the Church." Rome has problems... BIG problems. HUGE and SYSTEMATIC problems. There are prelates in the Vatican that should be strung up. But it is still Rome, and if the pope says someone is excomunicated, they are - period. The solution here is for charity and humility on ALL sides. Rome should admit how screwed up it has become, and the SSPX should apologize for its (regrettable) disobedience. The Church needs the SSPX, but they can do a lot more for the immemorial mass and Tradition from within than they ever could from the outside.

Published by: Paul Armitage
Utica, NY 08/25/2005 06:49 PM EST

Christ saved the world through Obedience. We too are saved by Obedience to Christ and His Bride...The Church. The Church is human and Divine, compiled of saints and sinners, just as Christ said it would be. We are to follow the Holy Magisterium in all matters of faith and morals. Vatican II was and still is right for the Church and will never disappear. Some of the greatest Church documents (about to unfold) by JPII continue to reflect on Vatican II. I am also inspired that our new Pope has made quick reference to Vatican II when confirmed. If anyone knew Church History, even Trent had problems in the beginning. As long as the SSPX accepts Vatican II, there will be healing.
I advise all to follow Padre Pio's message, "Pray, hope and don't worry."

PA

Published by: Michael Bates
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia 08/25/2005 04:58 PM EST

This is fantastic news! If the talks work the SSPX could provide an enormous benefit to the Church. Let us pray it works out.

Published by: J
Austin 08/25/2005 03:19 PM EST

It is funny how schismatics are always the first to deny their schism.

Published by: Annabel Sutton
San Jose, California - U.S.A. 08/25/2005 02:03 PM EST

Like the rest of my brethren, SSPX was never excommunicated. This is to satisfy everyone else's mind. Another blasphemy! It is Vatican II and its false teachings that led everyone astray. Study your true Church history and you'll finally understand. Fr. Malachi Martin was RIGHT! And - Michael Davies - and my true friends of Tradition. This is a great persecution. But - Jesus was persecuted and murdered. He died for all sinners.

Published by: Elizabeth
Canada 08/25/2005 06:00 AM EST

The Novus Ordo Mass was to retain Latin and to permit the vernacular for specifics (readings, gospel and homily) Since Vatican 11 much error, digression, disobedience and now clergy scandal have entered from within. Fewer parishoners are in the pews with the changes-- removal of the altar rail, displacement of the tabernacle, communion in the hand, etc. The list of changes and removals was overwhelming and often promoted by misguided liturgists. The shepherds abandoned the flock by their behaviors and neglect of devotions and catechism. The nuns left in droves and the seminaries refused acceptable candidates. We were told it was the result of the culture of the sixties. Now the renewal has begun. Devotions are being re-instated the rosary has returned and the traditionalists are being heard. Mankind is seeking God and the laity have been leading the Church in the void that occured. EWTN, Fr. Corapi, Fr. Groschel, Fr. Pavone, and now Pope Benedict are guiding the renewal. Let us listen to these voices that have been crying in the wilderness. Christ did pray that all would be one. We have experienced the effects of division now let us proceed to unity.

Published by: Jim Dooley
Massapequa/New York/USA 08/25/2005 01:43 AM EST

Thank God for this meeting. It is NOT the SSPX which is in schism ,but rather the 'new theology', which has emptied the pews of Roman Catholic Churches over the past forty years. The SSPX may just spearhead the way back for Holy Mother Church. Cor ad Cor Loquitor!

Published by: SJM
Ohio 08/25/2005 01:26 AM EST

We would need a miracle to rid the "post conciliar" Church of Modernism, heresy and informal schism as Bishop Levada referred to the erring Church worldwide when I went to the CDF in 1981. That was how he said that Pope John Paul II & Cardinal Ratzinger saw the worldwide Church at that time. I had just left the convent before I lost my Catholic faith and went to Rome to find out why the Church was in such a mess. Now Levada's boss becomes pope. It is a big mess to clean up. There are not very many "real" Catholics left - who do not contracept, who go to Confession regularly and make a valid Confession. We need the SSPX "inside" the Church to show people how to be Catholic again. There are so many "lost sheep" that do not know their faith after 40 years of no catechesis (this was admitted by the American Bishops).

I have been lurking in the "underground" since 1984 in order to keep my Catholic Faith intact. I am organist & choir director of a Latin Mass/Gregorian Choir at an independent Traditional Chapel. The priest is on leave of absence from his diocese. I am a catechist at the most "conservative" parish in our city. Like Mother Teresa said -do little things in love. I'm hoping to make a difference in the confusion of the times.

I have great hopes for Pope Benedict's reign. My prayers are with both men as they meet. I believe they both love the Church.

Published by: Victor Pap III
Boston, MA 08/24/2005 04:19 PM EST

As a young catholic I am excited to see the prospects of reconciliation springing up from time to time. I wish they would offer both Latin & Vernacular.

Also, I read that pope Benedict has asked all Catholics to learn basic prayers in Latin--this leads me to believe there is a greater possibility of reconciliation.

Published by: Cpd
AZ 08/24/2005 04:16 PM EST

Let's pray for this. We need the holiness of the Latin mass -- the church needs this, and truly the world needs this.

Published by: s leblanc
baytown Texas USA 08/24/2005 04:06 PM EST

I stay confused with this issue -- schismatic or not schismatic -- you hear both -- what can we believe?......I pray that our beloved Pope will allow both masses to be said -- I personally would love to attend the Latin Mass -- however, the schedules for these masses which are approved today are held infrequently and it makes them more difficult to attend.

May God bless the Pope and the leaders of this group so that the resolution will meet the lay Catholics needs.

Published by: James Neeley
Nashville, Tennessee 08/24/2005 03:27 PM EST

Tell me,

What delineates you (Lebevrites) from the Protestants of old? You reject Vatican II...you murder the movements of the Holy Spirit. You disobey Christ Vicar on earth. You have set yourselves outside the Family of God.
Excommunicated..."What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven". You have forgotten this. You shall enter hell because you choose to go there. Disobedience and Pride is your downfall. Begone Satan!!! Pepent and be reconciled for your time grows short.

Sincerely, James of Nashville

Published by: Francie LaFortune
Las Vegas, NV USA 08/24/2005 02:44 PM EST

I look forward to the day when the Latin Mass returns. My husband has not attended mass for 40 years because of all the liberal changes in the church. He still goes by the old rules. I go to this new mass and feel that the only difference between this service and the Protestant service is that we still have the real presence there...even though our priests have put the tabernacle aside and put themselves in the middle of the alter. Lets go back to Latin and humble and holy priests. All this singing at the new mass, especially during and after communion, is driving me crazy. How can anybody possibly communicate with Jesus with all this noise.

Published by: Sam Doucette
Ashland, MA USA 08/24/2005 02:35 PM EST

Because I want schism to end and the 1962 Latin Mass to be widely applied provided it is in union with the Church, I pray every day for the reconciliation of the SSPX with the Church. I pray that very deliberately as I have come to understand that it is they through Archbishop Lefebvre who placed themselves in schism by disobeying the lawful authority of Pope Paul VI and John Paul II.

I highly recommend Patrick Madrid and Pete Vere's book "More Catholic than the Pope" which discusses the history of the SSPX schism and also refutes the canonical arguments often repeated by their sympathizers.

Published by: Sam Doucette
Ashland, MA USA 08/24/2005 02:34 PM EST

Published by: paul anthony melanson
Manchester NH USA 08/24/2005 02:11 PM EST

Suggested reading: Veterum Sapientiae of Pope John XXIII and more importantly: Sacrosanctum Concilium, Nos. 36 and 54.

Published by: Jack
Rockville Centre, NY USA 08/24/2005 01:54 PM EST

You are very uncharitable. The traditionalists are really the only true Catholics in my opinion, not to have made these rediculous concessions at Vatican II and the introduction of the Novus Ordo Mass, which by all accounts is irreverant and prone to innovation and abuse.

Why is it that only those that actually adhere to past teachings and want them restored are "schismatic" and banned from church discussion boards, but all other faiths are welcome? Does the church and yourself have something to fear like letting the average person in the pew really know what took place in 1970 and thereafter while they were tending to raising their children and making a living and how their church, their reverent traditional church was stolen right out from under them

Shame on you!

Published by: William Keevers
Lodi, CA, USA 08/24/2005 12:40 PM EST

In response to the claim of Msgr. Camille Perl the "the Church has not formally declared the Society of St. Pius X schismatic" and that "one can fufill his Sunday by participating in Masses offered by the priests of the Society [of St. Pius X]":

Let us bypass this distinction without a difference. Pope John Paul II, in "Ecclesia Dei " issued on July 2, 1988, "warned that formal adherence to the Lefebvrist schism was a grave sin (i.e., a mortal one if done with adequate knowledge and deliberate consent) and that it incurs excommunication." (http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211qq.asp).

It is useless to strain at the gnat of whether attendance at an illicit, schismatic mass satisfies the Sunday obligation, if one is excommunicated and is in mortal sin.

A useful general guide to this subject is at http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304fea2.asp

Other articles can be found by entering the search term "schismatic" in the search engine window at www.catholic.com.

Published by: Mark Hall
Cocoa Beach , Florida 08/24/2005 12:06 PM EST

My brother in siters in the battle,

It's funny that those of you who renounce the Novus Ordo Mass and don't acknowledge the authority of our current Pope would meet with someone they totally reject as our Churches Pappa and believe that he has the authority to bless or give permission for this situation!!!

Your theology and biography don't match ???

In addition there have been sooo many Eucharistic miracles associated and manifested during a Novus Ordo Mass, thus showing the validity of both their priesthood and the additional Mass given to us in the Novus Ordo style offering of the Holy Sacrifice .

Wake up CHURCH and stop the division and submit to the authority God has given us in Pope Benedict XVI. If he's not authentic, then the gates of hell have prevailed. I THINK NOT !!! Let's seek to fulfill Jesus prayer that we may all be one...

Mark Hall

Published by: ROSALIND SOARES
TORONTO CANADA 08/24/2005 11:54 AM EST

We should have the choice of the Latin Mass as well as the Vernacular, for the benefit of all. We would not want people to stop coming to Holy Mass because they cannot understand Latin, and not enough reverence in the vernacular would also turn them out. Given the choice people would be able to attend Mass comfortably. Let us pray for traditionalist to reconcile.

Published by: Ed Rosky
Greensburg, Pa. USA 08/24/2005 10:13 AM EST

Dream on. Our Bishop was presented with a petition from over 400 Catholics asking for the Latin Mass. We had 4 priests (2 ret. 2 act) who agreed to celebrate. He still denied the request. Disobedient? Obstinate? Something is terribly wrong in the Church when this can happen. Bishops? Dictators? Holy Mother Pray For Us!

Published by: Dr. Timothy J. Williams
Steubenville, Ohio 08/24/2005 09:39 AM EST

Wow! The Catholic News Service has apparently discovered the word "schismatic"!!! Please note, however, that the word applies only to those who love the ancient, eternal liturgy of the Church!

Published by: J. F. Gecik
USA 08/24/2005 09:07 AM EST

You are right, Daniel Fix. The article is littered with errors.

More important to me, though, is the unlikelihood that the schismatic SSPX will be reconciled to the Catholic Church.

In 1984, the Holy See published "Quattuor abhinc annos," the first document allowing for the "indult Mass." It included the following words: "[T]he Supreme Pontiff ... grants to diocesan bishops the possibility of using an indult whereby priests and faithful ... may be able to celebrate Mass by using the Roman Missal according to the 1962 edition, but under the following conditions: ... That it be made publicly clear, beyond all ambiguity, that such priests and their respective faithful in no way share the positions of those who call in question the legitimacy and doctrinal exactitude of the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970 ..."

In other words, the SSPX will have to admit that the "Mass of Paul VI" -- which they call the "Novus Ordo" -- is "legitima[te]" and "doctrinal[ly] exact". My understanding is that the SSPX has always denied one or both of these facts.

Published by: Linda Robinson
Longville, Louisiana USA 08/24/2005 08:47 AM EST

I pray this is not going to lead to another disappointment as did the rumors in 2003. Let us all pray for our Holy Father and for the SSPX bishops to work things out for the sake of all of us who are starving liturgically.

Published by: Tinsley Ducote
Alexandria Louisiana 08/24/2005 08:44 AM EST

I manage a catholic book store in Central Louisiana 99% of the people given a choice would preferr a Latin Mass. I have put out a petition for people to sign. I plan on sending it to our Bishop. I suggest people do the same if they would like to have the Latin Mass back. It will have to start with we the people.I'm a convert of 9 years and I pray and long for the day I see people recieving our Lord on there knees. Immaculate Heart of Mary intercede for us!

Published by: Mr. Paul Coats
Missouri, USA 08/24/2005 08:20 AM EST

To quote Msgr. Camille Perl: "Since, up to now the Church has not formally declared the Society of St. Pius X schismatic, it is assumed that one can fufill his Sunday by participating in Masses offered by the priests of the Society."

from Msgr. Camille Perl
Pontificia Commissio
"Ecclesia Dei"
No. 1/2005 15 January 2005

Published by: MaryAnne
USA 08/24/2005 08:08 AM EST

How awesome it would be to have them among us in every part of the world, with no restrictions on their holines, and, pious devotions of which both uniquely Catholic characteristics, have been wiped from the face of the earth elsewhere!! With no restrictions on saying the Mass of St. Pius V !!! With no Newvatican ORDERS to "also" say the Novus Ordo Mass !!! After all, the Chinese Patriotic Church is tacitly recognized by His Holiness. I do believe that they (Chinese Patriotic) are in deeper 'schism' (so called) than Archbishop Lefebvre. Thank God for Archbishop Lefebvre !!

Published by: Ray
USA 08/24/2005 07:46 AM EST

Thank Heavens...It should never have come this far in the first place. All the St. Pius X Society wants is the reverence for the Eucharist in the Latin Mass. And that is a GREAT thing sadly missing in the novus ordo Mass, where the Priest is more like the Master of Ceremonies, rather than "in persona Christi"...

Published by: Cindy Herzog
Marquette, Michigan 08/24/2005 07:41 AM EST

Well Praise God! I doubt Fellay will present "demands" to Pope Benedict and I pray their their talks will be blessed and fruitful. The church has embraced people much more devious than these in the past 30 years.

Published by: TJ Roberts
Columbus Ohio USA 08/24/2005 07:39 AM EST

Let us hope that both languages will be allowed, the Latin Mass and the Vernacular.

Published by: Blanca Sanchez
Miami, Fl 08/24/2005 07:18 AM EST

Marcel Lefebvre was never excomunicated, nor schismatic as he bounded to continue with the tradition as it was established in the Council of Trent. Also he sent a letter to our dear Pope explaining why he will ordeain the bishops. The door of hell will never previal. Who is like God?

Published by: Tony
Toronto, Canada 08/24/2005 06:58 AM EST

The SSPX is not in schism. It is the pope and the Novus Ordo bishops who are in schism from the True Catholic Faith and Sacraments.

Published by: Henry Malske
UK 08/24/2005 03:00 AM EST

I love your objective and charitable reporting - I think not!

Published by: Maria-Elena Barker Harding
Miami Lakes, Florida 08/23/2005 05:23 PM EST

This would be wonderful. I feel when viewing the "new Mass" as attending a Protestant Service. In the real Latin Mass I feel that I truly adore God/Christ.

Published by: Jacob J.
Louisiana, USA 08/23/2005 03:48 PM EST

This is great news. We desperately need to return to our Catholic roots. I pray for this cause.

Published by: Daniel A. Fix
USA 08/23/2005 01:54 PM EST

How many errors are you willing to permit in your story?

Published by: Stephen Hand, TCRNews.com
Massachusetts 08/23/2005 12:46 PM EST

May God be with them all.

SH

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