(They announce turbulence on the plane)
They tell me that after the turbulence of Barros and the Sodalitium, we have a more meteorological one...I'll stay here.
(He sits in a row of seats with the journalists during the turbulence).
Matilde Burgos, CNN Espanol: (Follow up question about Bishop Barros and about a possible distance between the Pope and the people in Chile)
Pope Francis: The case maybe started with the bad decision of the resignation, and he began to be accused. But there is no evidence of abuse. Covering up an abuse is abuse. There is no evidence. There isn't. The best they believe is this, to provide the evidence quickly. If you think it is like this honestly. I, in this moment, do not think it is so, because there is none. But my heart is open to receive it.
And the other from Chile is made up.
I came from Chile happy, I did not expect that many people in the street. And they weren't paying an entry fee. The people were not paid nor taken in collectively. The spontaneity of Chile was very strong, even in Iquique, and I thought it was going to be a little thing. But you saw what it was. In the south, the same and in Santiago, the same. The streets of Santiago spoke for themselves.
In this, I think that the responsibility of the informant is to go to the concrete facts. There was this, and this. The thing about a divided people, I do not know where it comes from, it is the first time I hear of it. Maybe Barros is the cause of this, but placing it in its reality it could be because of this. But my impression of Chile was very strong and rewarding. Then, I would like to go back a moment to what most moved me about Chile, at least a moment.
Greg Burke: Let's move on to the Italian group. Andrea Tornielli, Vatican Insider.
Andrea Tornielli (Vatican Insider/La Stampa): Your Holiness, I wanted to talk about what you said in the past day in the Amazon, because there was a new element in that speech: not only the threat posed by the big economic groups, but also the threat - indeed you have talked about perversion - of some environmental policies that end up stifling people's lives. So is there an environmentalism that is against man?
Pope Francis: Yes, yes in that area, I could not at this moment describe it well, but to protect the forest and to save some tribes who ended up outside the forest, because the forest is being finished by exploitation. But the most concrete fact of this case is in the statistics of the area. You will surely find the precise data. It is a phenomenon of preserving the environment and then isolating it, they have remained isolated from real progress. The number that was given there, in that area, the information they sent to prepare the trip, I have studied it.
Greg Burke: Aura Miguel, of Radio Renascenca.
Aura Miguel (Radio Renascenca): The wedding on the airplane. From now on, what would you say to the parish priests, to the bishops will be asked by couples if they can marry them I don't know where, on the beach, on boats, airplanes?
Pope Francis: You're imagining a cruise with a wedding. Eh, this would be… One of you told me that I'm crazy for doing these things. The thing was simple. The man was on the first flight. She wasn't there. I spoke with him… then, I realized that he had become awkward. I spoke of life of how I thought of life, then the life of the family. A nice chat. Then, the day after both of them were there and after we took a photograph, they told me this: 'We were going to get married in a church, we were married civilly, but the day before' - you could tell it was a small city - 'the church was toppled by an earthquake and there was no wedding.' This was 10 years ago, maybe eight, the earthquake was in 2010, eight years ago. And then [they thought]: "tomorrow we'll do it," and "the day after tomorrow." That's the way life goes and then the daughter [came] and another daughter. I interrogated them a bit. And the answers were clear, for their whole life…. "You know these things. Do you have a good memory of the catechism?" "We have taken the pre-matrimonial classes." They were prepared and I judged that they were prepared. They asked me. Sacraments are for people. All of the conditions were clear and why not do today … and not delay it for tomorrow… and maybe after 'tomorrow' it would have been eight or 10 years more. This is the answer. I judged that they were prepared, that they knew what they were doing, that each of them was prepared before the Lord with the sacrament of penance. When they had arrived at that point, it was all over. They told me that, they said it to some of you… "We're going to the Pope to ask if he'll marry us." That's how the thing went. But tell the parish priests that the Pope interrogated them well. And then they had done the pre-marriage course, and they were aware.
Greg Burke: Holiness, we've done almost an hour, but I don't know if we can still do one or two [questions].
Pope Francis: Yes, about the trip.
Greg Burke: On the trip. Nicole Winfield, Associated Press
Pope Francis: Yes, because about Peru, almost nothing [has been asked].
Nicole Winfield (AP): Ah, no more Chile... Holy Father, yesterday Cardinal O'Malley made a statement on these comments about Bishop Barros and he said that words such as these are a source of pain for the survivors of abuse with the effect of making them feel abandoned and discredited… you said that you didn't feel well [at knowing the victims felt abandoned], and I imagine, I wonder if it was precisely the words of Cardinal O'Malley that made you realize the pain [caused], and then a question linked to this: the Commission for the Protection of Minors, led by Cardinal O'Malley. There was the expiration last month of the first members. There are people who see in this expiration, they ask themselves if this is a sign of a "non-priority" of the protection of minors.
Pope Francis: I understand, I understand. On Cardinal O'Malley, I saw his statement, and he said, "the Pope has always upheld this, the Pope has zero tolerance, the Pope said the other.. with this unhappy expression."
And this has made me think of the word "proof." [It is] calumny, [if] anyone says with obstinacy, without evidence, that he did this, he did that... it is calumny. If I say that he stole and he did not steal, then I am slandering [him], because I do not have evidence, I do not have evidence that he did that to them.
But I have not heard of any victim of Barros... they have not come, they have not given evidences of the judgment. It is a little up in the air. It is a thing that you cannot assume.
You, with goodwill, tell me: there are victims [of Bishop Barros, or of the alleged coverage of Bishop Barros]. But I have not seen them because they have not come to me. It is true that Barros was part of the group of young men [around Karadima]. Barros entered the seminary, I don't know when, but he has been a bishop 24 years. He was probably a priest 15 years, many years. He entered as a very young man,... he says that he did not see it, he was part of the group but then he went another way. And on this we should be clear. One that accuses without evidence, with obstinacy, this is calumny.
But if a person comes and gives me the evidence, I am the first to listen to him. We should be just. I have an appreciation for Cardinal O'Malley, I thank him for his statement because it was very just. He said all that I did and that I do, that the Church does, and then he spoke of the sorrow of the victims. Not in this case, in general. Because many victims feel that they are not able to bring [forward] a document or a testimonial.
The commission was appointed for 3 years I believe, it has expired. I will study a new commission and they, the same commission, decided to renew a part, to nominate new members and others renew. But also before the start of the trip, the definitive list of the commission has come, and now it follows (that) there were some observations on someone that they should clarify, because they are studying the new people. There were two observations that they should clear up. Cardinal O'Malley has worked well, has worked as he should. No, please, do not think that... the time has been a normal amount of time for a nomination of people.
Greg Burke: Holiness, we'll do a final question, if it's about the trip.
Unknown Journalist: One of the aims of the Church is to fight against poverty. Chile, in 20 years has lowered the poverty level to 11 percent. Is it, in your perspective, the result of a liberal political [system]? Is there good in liberalism, do you think? I have another small question regarding Cardinal Maradiaga: what do you think of the news of money that regards him? Thanks.
Pope Francis: About Cardinal Maradiaga, it's not from the trip but I will answer: he has made a signed statement. I say what he said.
About liberalism, I will say that we have to study the cases of liberal politics well. There are other countries in Latin America with liberal politics. I'm not a technician, but in general a liberal political [system] that doesn't engage all of the peoples, leads downwards. I don't know in Chile but we see that in other Latin American countries, things are going down.
About the trip, I would like to say something that really moved me: the women's jail. Well, I have an ever sensitive heart… I'm very sensitive the jails and inmates. I always ask myself about jails, why them and not me. But, to see these women, to see the creativity of these women, the capacity for change, their capacity to change their lives, to reinsert themselves in society with the force of the Gospel. One of you told me that I saw the joy of the children. It moved me. And, I was very moved by that meeting, one of the most beautiful things of the trip. Then, at Puerto Maldonado, that meeting with the indigenous. We are there because obviously - in a moment you're in their world, no? - that day was the first meeting of the Synod for the Amazon, which will be in 2019. I was so moved by the "Hogar Principito", to see these kids, the majority abandoned, those young boys and girls who were able, with education, to move ahead. They are professionals. It moved me so much. It's a work to bring the person upwards. This moved me so much.
Then, the people, the warmth of the people. And today it was unbelievable what was there. The warmth of the people, and I say this nation has faith. This faith was contagious for me and I thank God, and I thank you for the work that awaits you, to write articles and news on the questions you've asked me. Thanks for your patience and thanks for the questions. Many thanks.
Greg Burke: Thanks, Holiness, for you patience. Have a good rest and a good dinner.