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Bishop Tobin: Catholic apathy on same-sex ‘marriage’ must end
 Bishop Thomas Tobin
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.- “Abysmal” Catholic apathy must be overcome to oppose those who are “fiercely determined” to impose homosexual “marriage,” Bishop of Providence, Rhode Island Thomas J. Tobin has warned. Reasserting Catholic teaching on sexual morality, he also said that same-sex “marriage” will endanger religious freedom. However, he said the typical Rhode Island Catholic’s response was indifferent and cited not wanting to judge people. Tobin also said that Catholics give rationalizations about the decline of Catholic influence. “[G]ay marriage will affect you and you should be concerned. And there’s a lot we can do,” the bishop wrote, proceeding to review reasons Catholics oppose same-sex “marriage.” Bishop Tobin explained that “homosexual activity is unnatural and gravely immoral. It’s offensive to Almighty God. It can never be condoned, under any circumstances. Gay marriage, or civil unions, would mean that our state is in the business of ratifying, approving such immoral activity.” The movement for same-sex “marriage,” he added, “seeks to radically redefine the most fundamental institution of the human race, the building block of every society and culture. From the beginning, marriage has been defined as the stable union of man and woman, designed by God to continue the human race through the procreation of children. “Homosexual relationships are not marriage – never have been, never will be.” Bishop Tobin introduced what he called the “champagne principle.” Saying that not every wine has the unique characteristics of champagne, the bishop argued that someone who relabeled a bottle of Chianti and tried to sell it as champagne would be arrested for fraud. Similarly, those who seek to redefine marriage and “to usurp the title ‘marriage’ for their morally bankrupt relationships,” are “committing an act of fraud,”he charged. “It’s insulting to those who have entered the authentic, sacred and time-honored institution of marriage over the years.” “The gay culture continues to seep into our popular culture, cleverly claiming credibility,” he said. He charged that President Barack Obama’s special invitations to homosexual families to participate in the White House Easter Egg Hunt was “just another not-too-subtle attempt to ignore the objective immorality of the situation and present gay couples as normal and happy as every other couple.” He closed with a warning about the implications the recognition of same-sex “marriage” would have for religious liberty. “We’re familiar with other examples of the gay agenda infringing on religious freedom,” he said, noting how Massachusetts required the Catholic Church to place children for adoption with homosexual couples and how some countries have charged Christian preachers of hate crimes for voicing Christian doctrine about homosexual practices. “Proponents of gay marriage say that the Church won’t be forced to witness such marriages. Don’t believe it,” he said, warning that the Church may be required to admit homosexual couples as sponsors for baptism, to rent its facilities for homosexual wedding receptions, or to hire employees despite their immoral lifestyles. “For simply maintaining its teachings in these and many other possible scenarios, the Church will be accused of bigotry and unlawful discrimination. The threat to our religious freedom is real, and imminent,” he said. Crediting Rhode Island’s governor, its Speaker of the House, and its President of the Senate for avoiding homosexual marriage, he said they have been “consistent and courageous” in deflecting the “onslaught” of homosexual activists. Bishop Tobin said that if only five or ten percent of Rhode Island’s Catholic population became involved on this issue “we could have an enormous impact and help Rhode Island maintain its moral sanity.” He encouraged Catholics to become aware of political action on the issue, to write letters to the editor, and to encourage their representatives to “defend marriage and family values. “And you can pray fervently that God will help us in this critical struggle on behalf of morality and common sense,” he added. If the imposition of homosexual marriage happens in Rhode Island, the bishop concluded, “It’ll be our fault… simply because our abysmal apathy allowed it to happen.” Subscriber comments:
Published by: S O'Brien
Providence RI 11/10/2009 07:45 AM EST
I agree with the Church, if you don't believe in the doctrine - get out! I left for the episcopal church years ago and it is the best thing I ever did. I don't have to feel like a hypocrite anymore. There are many churches that will provide a spiritual home to the cafeteria catholics.
Published by: Jean
NY 06/05/2009 12:16 PM EST
Anyone go over to the Courage Apostolate and check it out?
Anyone read Father Havey's Book Homosexuality and the Catholic Church Clear Answers to Difficult Questions? Very Interesting.
Published by: Tom
Sydney 05/13/2009 04:24 AM EST
Where do we start?
The catholic church is misunderstood on many things, (i.e. the popes comment on aids; one search in Google on "condoms stopping aids" will find you hundreds of pages by disease experts refuting claims condoms stop aids). The Catholic Church has preached its vision for close to 2000 years now, and while it may have been misguided in some respects, it has held firm to its beliefs. The true test of faith is whether you are ready to live by the teachings of Jesus Christ, not the teachings of society. Science once taught the theory of spontaneous generation, that maggots "magically" appeared in dead meat, and has proven time and time again it is fallible. The teachings of the Catholic Church are sadly taken advantage of so many times. The Lord loves all of us equally, even gays, but just because he loves us doesn’t means he likes what we do. He gave us free will because he loves us, is homosexuality really how we repay that trust? The time tested motto stands; Its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Published by: AlanW
North Las Vegas, NV 05/06/2009 11:59 AM EST
The Catholic Church and the Mormon Church need to get together. Oh...they did in California. Never mind that the Mormon leaders call the Catholic Church the "Whore of All the Earth". Believe me I know they do, I was a missionary for the Church...No longer am a member of it, nor of any church. Almost all churches teach hate and I really don't want to be a part of any of them.
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI 05/05/2009 04:46 PM EST
"Bishop Tobin should come out and say that gay men and women are not allowed in the church and that's fine!"
Actually, what the Bishop is saying is in regards to the definition of marriage. He has said nothing about excluding anyone from membership in the Church. Don't argue from emotion. Argue against what the Church actually teaches in this area. You will find the Churches teachings are solidly grounded in rational arguments drawing from natural law, logic, anthropology, scripture, tradition etc. Can you show me an official church teaching that states that gays should be excluded from the Church?
Published by: Paul
Milwaukee, WI 05/04/2009 06:06 PM EST
Bishop Tobin should come out and say that gay men and women are not allowed in the church and that's fine!
Say whatever you want from your pulpit, Bishop Tobin. We gay men and women won't be there. We won't attend your colleges and universities, contribute to your fundraisers, present ourselves to be god-parents, go to your hospitals, we don't need to get your blessing for our relationships. Every Catholic gay man and woman, especially those in the clerical and religious ranks should no longer share their time, talent and treasure. Enough is enough!
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI 05/04/2009 03:47 PM EST
"The American Psychiatric Association confirmed that all sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced, morally neutral, immutable"
Natural? What does that mean? and what implication does it have in the context of this discussion? Sorry, but the APA has no authority to be defining what is moral and what it not. It's laughable to even suggest it.
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI 05/04/2009 02:37 PM EST
"Children should learn that same-sex marriage equals opposite sex marriage"
Actually, same sex so-called marriage does not equal the true definition of marriage. I live in MI and they are not equal. Furthermore they cannot be equal by the very nature of what marriage is. You are trying to make a circle and square equal. "When America's premier child and mental health associations endorse marriage equality, there remains no ethical reason to discriminate against gay people and their children" Depending who you talk to, the APA is not considered "peremier". BTW, nobody is being discriminated against. You have to start redifining things in order to even shed a glimmer of light to that tired argument. What would you like to redfine next?
Published by: Sue
Kentucky 05/04/2009 09:23 AM EST
Artificial contraception has watered down the meaning, power and beauty of heterosexual marriage.
Now, it seems the "anything goes" attitude of society confuses God's plan for marriage where, among many aspects to this plan, "love becomes so real you have to give him/her a name." Just wondering--why not chastity in same-sex friendship? People come to same-sex relationships for different reasons, including sexual abuse by the opposite sex. We all long to love and and be loved. Some people are broken and find love and understanding through a friendship with someone of the same sex. Must the relationship become sexual? How about chastity?
Published by: Kate O'Hanlan, MD
Portola Valley, CA 05/02/2009 11:10 AM EST
The US Census reveals that 1/3 of America's same-sex families are raising children, with the same responsibilities of any American family, needing and deserving all the same financial, legal and social protections that current marriage laws provides. Children should learn that same-sex marriage equals opposite sex marriage because they need to know that all American families are equal in the eyes of the law.
The American Psychiatric Association confirmed that all sexual orientation is natural, biologically induced, morally neutral, immutable, neither contagious nor learned, and has no relation to ability to form deep and lasting relationships, to parent children, or to contribute to society. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association, and the American Psychiatric Association endorsed civil marriage for same sex couples because marriage strengthens the mental and physical health and the longevity of couples, and provides greater legal and financial security for children, parents, and seniors. When America's premier child and mental health associations endorse marriage equality, there remains no ethical reason to discriminate against gay people and their children. 3% of every generation, of every culture, in every state, of every country will grow up and realize that they are gay. The question that we need to ask ourselves is: what are we doing to make our world a safer and more welcoming place for ALL CHILDREN? Kate O'Hanlan, MD
Published by: Mark
Powhatan 05/01/2009 10:54 PM EST
This isn't a Catholic issue-it is christian teaching. How can one be a christian and reject the literal words of the Son of God?
Published by: thomasALEX
Wasilla, AK 05/01/2009 07:57 PM EST
I do not see what all the fuss is about. No ones Religious Liberty's are being infringed upon, accept those Religions who condone Gay Marriage. Civil Marriage is a State issue and not a Church issue. Therefore the Church involvement is absurd.
Published by: Michele Kuxhausen
Houston, TX 05/01/2009 07:20 PM EST
Why is sodomy wrong? Because God told us so. Start with Genesis and keep reading. End of discussion. We do not hate gays or any other type of sinner. We feel great sorrow when a particular sin against God and man are repeated over and over, but it is worse when that sin is said not to be a sin. Read the Bible to see what God and Jesus had to say about calling good bad and bad good. And leading others to sin is compared to being worse than having a millstone tied around one's neck. Ouch. Be faithful and return to the Gospel.
Published by: MBern
New Haven CT 05/01/2009 04:51 PM EST
The Catholic Church has a great deal of teachings that are against the religion and are considered sinful. The "Pill" prevents procreation and therefore is against church doctrine, but the Average Catholic Household does not exceed 10. The divorce thing is pretty high, and well, 50% end in divorce. My gift to love my husband as a gay man is my Gift of who I am, and that's from God, plan and simple.
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI 05/01/2009 03:44 PM EST
Irish, "The argument that gay marriage will destroy "traditional" marriage or religious freedom is preposterous"
Really? You have to look a bit more into the issue. Any clear thinking and logical person can look at the climate surrounding this issue and project some serious concerns about religious freedom and traditional (real) marriage. Wake up. BTW, I'll bet that in addition to advocating for same-sex marriage, there are other teachings of the church that you dismiss. Hate to tell ya, but calling yourself "catholic" means very little when you set out to make up your own version of the faith. The truths of the faith aren't dependent on your personal opinion or a popular vote.
Published by: Mary Kay
Quincy,il 04/30/2009 06:16 PM EST
God Bless for fighting the good fight! Remember persecuted never deserted!
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI/USA 04/30/2009 04:40 PM EST
" They are still back in the middle ages. "
Actually Michael, the teachings of the Church go back even further than that. I guess you could say in a way that we are stuck in the year 33AD. The doctrine and wisdom that the church has faithfully passed on throughout the ages is not subject to change by the whims and desires of any particular culture. Especially one as morally confused as our present day.
Published by: E.
U.S.A. 04/30/2009 04:26 PM EST
The Catholic Church will never accept homosexual "marriage". Ever. It's a closed issue. Homosexual activists are just going to have to deal with it.
Published by: kaythegardener
BEAVERTON, OR 04/30/2009 04:26 PM EST
Since when are religious heterosexual marriages harmed by civil marriages of others before a justice of the peace or county clerk?
The USA isn't France where all parties are required to have a civil marriage & then can have a religious ceremony as well, if they wish.
Published by: psalm
Detroit 04/30/2009 03:49 PM EST
To all the anti-Catholic trolls and pro-gay marriage folks. Engaging in conversation is a good thing. However Stop the generalizing and please stop the predictable and pathetic pulling of the "hate" card. It's a fallacious argument with no truth behind it. Someone please show me a "hateful" teaching in regards to homosexuality. Be specific. Where are these "hateful" teachings? The Catechism? An encyclical perhaps? Argue against what the Church actually teaches rather than appealing to emotional and fallacious arguments. How about the rational arguments against homosexuality from natural law, Anthropology, logic, jurisprudence? You have to learn to separate the sin from the sinner. Maybe you don't think homosexual hehavior is a sin. Then argue why you believe this. How does God's law in anyway support homosexual activity? Where do you find support for homosexual sex in any writings of authentic christianity? Why are the arguments from natural law against homosexuality wrong? Start making some arguments rather than simply calling people names.
Published by: Irish
Seattle/WA/USA 04/30/2009 01:07 PM EST
Bishop Tobin and others like him are determined to make the Church more and more irrelevant. The Church hierarchy is on the wrong side of history on this one. Opposing same sex marriage out of "love" is a ridiculous argument. As a Catholic, I don't want to see our church became an agent for discrimination. The argument that gay marriage will destroy "traditional" marriage or religious freedom is preposterous, and cannot stand. Bishop Tobin, I do not plan to be "apathetic" on this issue...I plan to be a strong advocate for it.
Published by: Marie
Louisiana 04/30/2009 01:00 PM EST
I agree with Bishop Tobin's beliefs. However, there is a sense of futility among a vast number of Catholics to actively oppose gay marriage and the grave sin of homosexual acts. Why? One major reason is the inaction of the Bishops regarding abortion. Leading Catholic politicians who consistently vote for pro-abortion measures are NOT held accountable by the Church. They continue to receive Communion and even brag on news outlets that they are devout Catholics. They mislead millions. Why don't the Bishops do anything? Many of us are exhausted in attempts to urge the Bishops to stop this terrible scandal. Abortion is, I believe, an even graver sin than homosexual acts. As long as Catholic politicians act with impunity to facilitate these immoral actions and the Bishops are passive and do nothing to correct them, don't expect a huge outcry against gay marriage. When the Bishops excommunicate key abortion enablers, you may see new enthusiasm in opposing gay marriage.
Published by: Michael Baron
Front Royal, VA 04/30/2009 11:54 AM EST
First of all, the Church does not oppose gay marriage because of "bigotry" or "hate" it opposes it out of love. The moral law is not arbitrary. Breaking it hurts you. The Church saying "do not engage in homosexual acts" is akin to telling someone "don't do heroin." It might feel good at the time, but in the long run you will suffer. It's not an issue of equality at all. It's an issue of some people wanting the State to declare that their harmful and self destructive behavior is equal to marriage.
And Catholics fearing the loss of freedom of religion is hardly paranoia. Adoption agencies are already forced to give children to gay couples, and people are speaking openly of forcing Catholic hospitals to perform abortions. But gay marriage will be different, right?
Published by: Bruce D
Portland, ME, USA 04/30/2009 09:51 AM EST
Excellent essay by Bishop Tobin. It is HIGH TIME that Catholics begin to follow the wisdom of our leaders. Homosexual tendencies are a call to celibacy, a cross to bear with love and support of the Church and society. These tendencies are NOT to be acted upon, for that is an abomination and sinful. Do we allow the blind to drive cars? Is that unfair to them? Do we allow horses to mate with humans? Is that unfair to them? Liberal and atheist views of society are broken and historically-proven failures. Catholics who do not fall in line with Church teachings and beliefs should leave until they are willing to accept TRUTH and return HOME. We will wait lovingly and patiently for you to come out of the cold, and come home from the ruins of a secular world.
Published by: Michael
Yonkers 04/30/2009 08:44 AM EST  Rate: Regular
the Catholic church won't get it until the last light is out. These kind of pontifications are what turn people off. There are no vocations because the church is so out of touch with the needs of their congregates. They are still back in the middle ages.
Published by: Arnaldo Verastegui
Peru 04/30/2009 08:13 AM EST
Open persecution against Christians is coming soon. We have to be prepared to suffer for Christ and his Gospel.
Published by: K Larsen
Midland, MI 04/30/2009 07:33 AM EST
When the bishops themselves stop being apathetic about contraception, abortion, cohabitating, divorce and annulments, then perhaps those of us out here in the hinter lands might share his utter disgust with so-called homosexual marriage.
But I just don't see that happening. My own "good bishop" has yet to condemn Prez Obama at ND. Since joining the Church in '96, I think I've heard about sexual sins maybe 2 times.
Published by: Mike Malone
Glenwood, Iowa 04/30/2009 07:28 AM EST
Excellent, right on, perfect, sane, rational and outstanding. It's about time. I love it. Bravo. To those of you that bash the Catholic Church....you are the true bigots. If you think you can silence Catholic's with invective....won't happen.
Published by: Mark
KAnsas City, KS 04/30/2009 02:41 AM EST
I think that there is a prevailing Moral RElativism in our culture. Society doesn't know what is right and wrong. The issue of Marriage between a man and woman is based on "NATURAL LAW" and REASON.
Gay couples can't produce children and raise them because children need both parents.
Published by: Kabulous
Chicago, IL 04/30/2009 01:55 AM EST
I was raised Catholic, served as an alter boy until I was 19, attended a Catholic primary school and university. I never met a priest or nun who spoke so hatefully as this bishop. Moreover, when the subject came up as it occasionally did these same nuns and priests agreed that gay people should be affored the same rights and privileges in society as others. Rather than wasting my time arguing about the terms used by this bishop to denounce what he is against I would prefer to make note of the many Catholics who have taken a different view.
Published by: Greg
Juneau 04/30/2009 01:11 AM EST
How bout we focus on finding love in our hearts for each other, helping each other be better people and move seamlessly from this world to the next intead of "institutional think." Bishop Tobin's views are so small. I hope to shout this God of our massive unbelievably beautiful universe that he/she created cares about more than people's myopic view of sexual attraction. Yipes Bishop your sounding a bit more like Rush Limbaugh than Jesus. Is this my Church?
Something is terribly wrong in all this condemning stuff.
Published by: Marcia
WI USA 04/30/2009 12:52 AM EST
Fr. T. Deutsch, I agree with you, but it goes even further back. Until the Church recognizes that no fault, forced, unilateral divorce which began in 1973 across the nation as an evil that SHOULD have been fought against, and begins to do so, we will get nowhere. It has affected everything, including US Tribunals, and is a deep root of destruction of the family and Marriage.
Our Bishops should have begun their fight for the family way back then!
Published by: Merry
Virginia 04/29/2009 11:00 PM EST
Bravo Bishop Tobin! In the world we live in today, it takes raw courage to go against the prevailing PC stance.
Fr. Deutch's comments on cohabitation is dead right too! Bless you both!
Published by: Bill W.
Barrington/RI/USA 04/29/2009 10:30 PM EST
Proud to have Bishop Tobin serving as my bishop.
The Truth will prevail! And it will also divide. Those who speak of "unity" and "compromise" are lying to you. The devil's favorite color is gray.
Published by: Bostonian
U.S. 04/29/2009 09:26 PM EST
Is it new to some of you that Christian condone sinners? Yes, we love them, but do we help them? No!
Perhaps we should let polygamy go loose too - because what else is there stopping that? Anything besides Christianity? And don't get me started on bestiality...
Published by: Matthew
Seattle, WA 04/29/2009 05:49 PM EST
Same-sex relationships are not stable? I've been in one for 7 years. We are closer and have a stronger relationship than most straight couples I know. We intend to be together for the rest of our lives.
We are both very loving individuals and will be raising children in a family with two very loving parents. We are both university educated and have more than enough money to provide our children with everything they need. Why does the church feel the need to condemn our relationship and our family-to-be? The Bible said lots of things are immoral which we now laugh at. Ownership of women as property, not eating shellfish, etc. Why is the church so obsessed with gay marriage? Why not work on strengthing marriage by reducing divorce and infidelity? Stopping gay people from marrying is not the magic pill that is going to fix marriage. In fact, gay couples may improve the institution of marriage by providing strong examples of what joy and good a loving stable relationship can bring. And really, how does the act of two men having sex in their bedroom affect anyone else in any way? Let's step back and see the big picture and fix what is *really* wrong with marriages and not blame broken families on gay marriage. It's easy to dump your problems on someone else, instead of fixing the root cause.
Published by: MBern
New Haven, CT 04/29/2009 04:37 PM EST
One last comment about gay relationships. My partner and I have been together for more than 15 years now. We have attended my brothers wedding(s) and helped him through both divorces. We run 2 large fund raisers for children in need and animal shelters each year. We have a home, a business the respect of our family, friends and neighbors. We go to church, (no longer to a catholic church) where we are accepted and celebrate our personal relationship with Christ. I listed to the Pope refute condoms in an AIDS ridden country, I heard his apology for the denial of the holocaust by a bishop. I watched a bishop in CT march on the captial upset they wanted a better safe guard in tracking NON-Profit monies meant for charitable work, and not another condo in Florida. How many people did they march past that had just lost their homes. How many young men and women have died in Iraq without the dignity of the bishop marching to end KILLING. He'll march to protect his wallet from being peeked into, but how fast does he run to the side of the family of fallen soliders. Shame, Catholics aren't holding New England, and that was their strong hold. Instead of fighting everyone, maybe they should minister to them. They've lost me, but they still mail me envelopes to donate. Gays are organized and well funded, but we're nothing compared to the Vatacans wealth.
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI 04/29/2009 04:32 PM EST
"This is yet another example of the "church" perpetrating crimes in the name of God"
Huh? What crimes? Be specific. "I can think of nothing more un-christian than Bishop Tobin's comments that homosexuality is immoral and offensive to God." Really? Do you: 1. Read scripture? Homosexuality is clearly condemned. 2) Do you know anything about the history of 'Christian' teaching in regards to homosexuality? We can find condemnation of homosexuality not only in scripture but also in the writings of the earliest Christians. Maybe you should look further into your knowledge of authentic Christianity before leveling charges of 'crimes' against the Catholic church in regards to this matter.
Published by: MBern
New Haven, CT 04/29/2009 04:23 PM EST
50% of the people married in the Church end in Divorce! The child molestation issues which plagued the Catholic Church cost them an est. billion dollars. In Darien CT a priest walked off with more than a million dollars. Denial won't help the church, worring about the State of RI giving me permission to marry? Don't hear many bishops talking about their internal problems & what is being done to correct their own problems, but they feel they should be involved in my mine?
I was until recently an active Catholic, giving money, participating in my local parish. I went to mass, prayed, was educated in Catholic Schools my whole life. To Mr. Larsen who commented on pornography, I would say please seek help. If you're looking at gay pornography, claiming to be straight and only condeming gay pornography as unnatural,then I strongly urge you to seek professional help. As a health care provider take my word, you really need to deal with a few issues. Maybe focus on your own life and not my bedroom. I realize that people may think that my CT gay marriage is destroying the value of marriage. Our neighbors are filing for divorce, and I'm sure it's because Steven and I married, and not because of my neighbors girl friend. To the bishop I am sorry that you've studied the word of God through the bible and brought to your heart the actual text, loosing some of it's meaning. Pull the log from your own eye before... And love one another as he has loved us.
Published by: John Siple
Santa Rosa, CA, United States 04/29/2009 04:10 PM EST
Because God Is Love, the Holy Trinity is pure and holy. Gay lifestyle is proud, haughty, arrogant, industrious and inventful. This is not pure, as God is pure. The backlash toward those who do not believe their way tells it like it is.
Published by: Jack
Canada 04/29/2009 04:09 PM EST
Caesar wants to create another imbalance. The state in sanctioning same-sex relationships as civil marriages discriminates against other forms of small social clusters being treated with equality.
To be truly fair, Caesar must allow civil marriage licenses to be issued to any group of 2 or more humans that want to consider themselves civilly joined. Otherwise Caesar is not promoting equality, but is just granting special status to a group. Cicil Marriage must be either uniquely applicable to an opposite sex couple, or it must be available to any form of social grouping. Otherwise it is not fair. C'mon Caesar - Choose.
Published by: Robertz
Owensboro 04/29/2009 04:01 PM EST
I have recently noticed an influx of anti-catholic trolling on this website. It is not too hard to see the virulent attitudes of activists for homosexual "marriage". We are forbidden to judge people, but not forbidden to judge sinful acts. Rebuking the sins of a person is a spiritual act of mercy. The Church teaching on homosexual activities is not changeable. Those properly catechised know this. One only has to look towards Massachusetts to see religious freedom being overridden. Parents are not allowed to be notified to remove their children from programs set up deliberately to indoctrinate the falsity that the homosexual lifestyle is normal (actually a mental illness only recently unclassified as such due to political threats by the activists) and that nothing is wrong with it. Homosexual pornography books have even been read to elementary school students, and taught how to perform oral 'sex' on others.The Bishop is doing his duty and is in full line with the Catholic Church on this matter. Go to massresistance dot org for more info.
Published by: robin andress
Phoenix Arizona USA 04/29/2009 03:31 PM EST
Reading the appology by the Pope to the first peoples of Canada, I can imagine the appology to gay people sometime in the (far) future. Was the Church any less sure of itself when it perpetrated the acts against the indigenous people of Canada? Also, disagreement is not apathy.
Published by: rpb
manassas, virginia 04/29/2009 03:29 PM EST
A manly bishop that asserts Natural Law applies to all of history.
Published by: Mike
Royal Oak/MI/USA 04/29/2009 02:54 PM EST
Amen to Bishop Tobin. Unfortunately, looking at some of these responses, it will be an uphill battle.
From Kenneth: "Bishop tobin sees the will of the people in a democracy as a threat to religious freedom, and he would remedy that by imposing a Catholic version of Sharia law on all of us." How bout the will of the people in California? Shouldn't their will be followed.
Published by: David Q, Cooke
Raleigh, NC 04/29/2009 02:43 PM EST
I find it it particularly telling that none of the following words appear in the Bishop's commentary: "love", "compassion", "Jesus", or "Christ". Apparently, in his morality, no amount of love, mutual care, well-being or stability over any number of decades can compensate for even one act of forbidden sexual activity in the life of a couple. Apparently, in the Bishop's book, failure to repent from any and all deviation from the church's canon of sexual morality is equivalent to moral bankruptcy. In the context of such a failure, apparently, any and all love, commitment, generosity and sacrifice become irrelevent. So much for "...faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love".
Published by: Bob
Philadelphia, USA 04/29/2009 01:09 PM EST
The Bishop's correct.
If you are Catholic/Christian, the teaching from Scripture and Tradition for 2000 years has always condemned homosexual acts (sodomy). It's as much as a grave sin as adultery and fornication sins done by heterosexual men and women. "Love the sinner and hate the sin." If you redefine marriage as other than only between a man and a woman, where does it end? If man can marry man, why can't man marry golden retriever? Or why can't man marry ten women? Or man marry elm tree? Homosexuals that deny these marriages can then also be called bigots.
Published by: Br. Jakob
Providence, RI 04/29/2009 12:56 PM EST
May the Lord not so easily dismiss Bp. Tobin's pain as Tobin has dismissed the pain of gay and lesbian Catholics in RI.
Is there anyway to not have gay sacramental marriage and not approve of anal sex while still totally embracing the individuals as equals in our Churches? The "them vs. attitude" must stop. The gay and lesbian people of RI are mostly Catholic... Tobin, be their pastor and advocate, not their afflicter.
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI 04/29/2009 12:52 PM EST
"same-sex “marriage” will endanger religious freedom."
It sure will. Once same sex so-called gay marriage becomes a legislated moral norm in society, you had better believe it will have an affect on religious liberty. It will have an effect on the entire society. This isn't a case of the fallacious argument "how will my gay marriage effect you?" We aren't talking about a singular effectual relationhip here. We are talking about normalizing disordered behavior and redifining an entire social instution by force. Yeah, it's going to effect people when the gay agenda is force fed to our children. It will have an effect when religious institutions preach against homosexuality and are unjustly attacked as hateful (as is already happening). Wake up people. Of course legalizing so called gay marriage will affect religious freedom. It will affect even more than that.
Published by: d.smith
california 04/29/2009 12:46 PM EST
Hooray for Bishop Tobin! Would that other bishops feel the urge to cover all these important consequences of immoral relationships. Much of the clergy has not been active in leadership roles as it involves traditional marriage, abortion, etc.
When they are, a very evident change in attitudes is noticed. As for the general public and don't-give-a-darn Catholics, its just more comfortable to go along with the crowd.... Most of us should remember: "Evil occurs when good men do nothing."
Published by: psalm
Detroit/MI 04/29/2009 12:33 PM EST
Well said Bishop! Catholics need to learn the teaching of the Church. Learn the arguments against homosexual so-called marriage. So many Catholics wilt under pressure of being called names because they don't know the issue in depth. Learn the arguments from natural law, anthropology, religion, jurisprudence etc.. That way you can show that the Church's teaching on this issue are ground in rational + logical arguments and have NOTHING to do with "homophobia" or hate.
Published by: Richard Ormsby
Pioneer, CA, USA 04/29/2009 12:25 PM EST
I agree with Church teaching on this subject. However, when we were told that gay marriage would threaten families and destroy tradional marriages, the hyperbole made me say, "That's just dumb." With the exception of a traditionally married individual who now enters into a "gay marriage", I have yet to read of any traditional marriage being destroyed by two gays getting married. To say the whole institution of traditional marriage has been damaged is just over the top. And since as many as perhaps 30 to 40% of all marriages in the U.S. end divorce,it appears to me that this is a problem about which we are truly apathetic. Have we made any progress in outlawing divorce or are we even trying to? Isn't divorce a more immediate threat to family stability and the bedrock of society?
Published by: Phillip Sandoval
Fair Oaks, CA, USA 04/29/2009 12:24 PM EST
Excellent and clear direction from Bishop Tobin. We Catholics are not a political organization. We are children of Jesus Christ our Savior who need to LIVE our FAITH and not worry about being popular. Pray to the Holy Family; Jesus, Joseph, and Mary there we will find the meaning of marriage. Sexual gratification is not marriage.
Published by: barbara o'reilly
saugerties, n.y. USA 04/29/2009 11:49 AM EST Rate: Good
How sad that this country so easily accepts KILLING BABIES as their right. God Help Us. The culture of death is all around us. Prayers and lots of them are needed plus getting people elected who believe in life
Published by: Chuck Anziulewicz
Spring Hill, West Virginia, USA 04/29/2009 11:48 AM EST Rate: Good
In all of Bishop Tobin's wailing and gnashing of teeth over marriage equality for Gay couples, there's one thing missing: ANY possibility of compromise.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the Supreme Court ruled that there was no Constitutional justification for denying Gay couples the same legal benefits and responsibilities that Straight couples have always taken for granted, but that those benefits and responsibilities could be granted to Gay couples under a different term ... such as "civil unions." The rights under tax law, Social Security, etc. would be EXACTLY the same for Gay and Straight couples; only the terminology would be different. Opposite-sex couples would be allow the option to "marry," and same-sex couples would be allowed the option to enter into "civil unions." Social and religious conservatives could keep the term "marriage," and Gay couples would be accorded equal protection under the law as stipulated by the 14th Amendment. I wonder if Bishop Tobin could live with THAT.
Published by: Sandy
Providence/RI/US 04/29/2009 11:39 AM EST Rate: Regular
And you people wonder why your numbers are dropping? It's BS like this that keeps us out of the cathloic faith.
Published by: FlexSF
San Francisco 04/29/2009 11:38 AM EST Rate: Regular
Does the word zealotry mean anything to religious leaders? If we put proposition 8 supporters marriage rights up for a popular vote, please don't take it personally. We would be treating them to their own brand of poison, but it would be done out of love.
Published by: JT
Atlanta 04/29/2009 11:27 AM EST Rate: Regular
I can think of nothing more un-christian than Bishop Tobin's comments that homosexuality is immoral and offensive to God. I don't know what God he worships but my God is loving and was the creator of gay men and women and loves them equally. This is yet another example of the "church" perpetrating crimes in the name of God.
Published by: kenneth
des plaines 04/29/2009 11:13 AM EST Rate: Regular
Most regular Catholics are not going to join in the Bishops' hysteria because they are secure in their own sexual identities and busy getting on with their lives. They're not interested in joining the church's crusade to turn the clock back to some revisionist paradise of 1959.
Ordinary Catholics also remember that Christ had other things in mind besides the Republican culture wars. Something to do with serving the poor and suffering, I think. The bishops never have much time for that these days. This crusade is a retributive action to try to deny people their dignity. It is bigotry, no matter how well its dressed up in theological and (mostly spurious) history. Interracial marriage was banned on the grounds that it went against the "God-given" order of things. Bishop tobin sees the will of the people in a democracy as a threat to religious freedom, and he would remedy that by imposing a Catholic version of Sharia law on all of us.
Published by: Cornet Mustich
Washington CT USA 04/29/2009 10:17 AM EST Rate: Regular
It's time.
Kudos to MA, CT, DC and Iowa for supporting marriage equality. Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace, Washington CT USA Thankfully we live in a country where we have freedom of and freedom from religion.
Published by: Fr. T. Deutsch
Willow River, MN 04/29/2009 10:15 AM EST Rate: Very Good
The Weakest Link.
Kudos to Bishop Tobin! But why such apathy among Catholics? Most heterosexual couples coming to get married in the Church are cohabitating. The fact that the Church has no sanctions for such activity furthers the contraceptive mentality, breaks down marriage, and even encourages young couples to cohabitate since they have nothing to lose and a lot to gain: personal, financial, and societal. We have gone beyond a complete apathy as regards cohabitation and now we actually expect it – even as Catholics! If the bishops continue to fail to address the problem of cohabitation then we will continue going down the path to marital destruction. This is because it is the first (and weakest) link in the chain – proper marriage preparation. Because we as a church have failed in marriage preparation to condemn contraception, to require N.F.P. courses, to sanction cohabitating couples, to have proper sacramental preparation, we thus have complete apathy as regards heterosexual marriage (the divorce rate among Catholics confirms all this). The distorted image of marriage that we project to society has come home to roost in its worst form of sexual expression: homosexuality.
Published by: Gabarus
Ottawa, Canada 04/29/2009 09:57 AM EST
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Published by: T. Christman
Osakis, MN, USA 04/29/2009 09:40 AM EST
All I have to say to this is AMEN!!! It's about time a christian stood up and said what we all know to be true!
Published by: Rob Alves
West Warwick RI USA 04/29/2009 09:22 AM EST
AMEN! Well said Bishop Tobin! I am proud to have you as our Bishop in Rhode Island. I have joined with the Diocese Human Life Guild to fight gay marriage in Rhode Island. We need more Catholics in most Catholic state in the country to step up and stand along side the Bishop in this fight!
Published by: Luis Madrigal
Delhi, Ca USA 04/29/2009 09:11 AM EST
Amen.
Published by: Dan
Santa Fe/NM/US 04/29/2009 08:53 AM EST
Only 25% of 'Catholics' attend Mass on Sunday so is the Bishop talking to the other 75%? If so he may be fighting the wrong battle---this issue is already lost.
Published by: Alden Utter
Washington, DC 04/29/2009 08:44 AM EST
"same-sex “marriage” will endanger religious freedom."
How? No churches will be forced to perform marriages against their will. As it stands, churches which *do* believe in equal marriage have their freedoms unconstitutionally, and unjustifiably, limited.
Published by: Kayla
ma 04/29/2009 08:34 AM EST
It's over!!! All we're really discussing now are the semantics. Gay marriage will eventually be in very state. The bigots have lost the culture war, thank God in his heaven. His will will be done and all his children will be treated as equals under the law. Gay marriage isn't being imposed on anyone, no one will be forced to participate in gay marriages against their will. Father, please get another cause there are soo many other pressing issues the church should be addressing!! Christ expects more from his servants than fear-mongering about gay people!!
Published by: John
Vatican 04/29/2009 08:13 AM EST
Please, these arguments are tired and old. What the Catholic cult does not realize is that you are becoming irrevelent! God is a fictional character created by man to impose control over humans. Religion is the biggest scam in the world.
Published by: Andrew Nelson
Columbia, SC USA 04/29/2009 07:52 AM EST
Bishop Tobin is right on the mark. Too many catholics are apathetic or cowardly. Catholics have to speak up and defend the faith. It's not about being tolerant, it's about standing up for the truth. And there is only one truth, Jesus Christ. Too many Catholics conform to the world instead of proclaiming the truth to the world. All Catholics need to have some fortitude and not be afraid to confront those who attack the Church.
Published by: Joe Murray
Chicago,Il 6061 04/29/2009 07:42 AM EST
What a sad day. When fear and not love is promoted. Reading the words of Bishop Tobin one would get the idea that the pastoral approach has given way to the judgmental approach. Or, that this is a political partisan view rather than religious view. I pray this is not the case, and that Bishop Tobin represents a minority view of the Bishops Conference.
Perhaps the good people of Rhode, Island are the product of poor catechist, and the Bishop should look to himself, and not others in judging this situation. Most reasonable people have the ability of balancing facts with fiction.
Published by: Denbeau Alimere
Toronto 04/29/2009 07:29 AM EST Rate: Good
In a chaotic statement of rampant paranoia, let's single out one total fabrication: "Proponents of gay marriage say that the Church won’t be forced to witness such marriages. Don’t believe it". The church has never, and will never, be 'forced' to witness marriages that it doesn't choose to. It has never been forced to marry the divorced; it has never been forced to marry atheists. To make this claim is simply an attempt to whip up hysteria among non-thinkers.
Published by: dAVID LARSEN
scituate Mass. USA 04/29/2009 07:21 AM EST Rate: Good
Gay relations are not good stable ones and they can never be condoned. Proof is on the internet depicted as hard core pornography. Their acts are an abomination and graphic examples of what is truly ugly about sex. Unnatural sex is the source of much litigation. Institutions are already paying much as a result of many unnatural sexual encounters. Do they want to pay more because of unnatural and unstable relationships? This is termed sexual abuse. Legalization of homosexual unions will destroy the whole perspective of what justice is. It must be stopped. Why does the Church have to pay litigation when abnormal sexual behavior is becoming the norm? Sex is the issue as it will become okay to have it in anyway that one would choose. Soon there will be no such thing as sexual abuse. The Catholic Church is the only source of sanity concerning this issue. It already knows more than it should on what constitutes unhealthy sexual choices and about what is sexual abuse.
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