Bishop Tobin expresses disappointment with Rep. Kennedy for going public on Communion decision

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Comments: 62

Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-R.I.)

Providence, R.I., Nov 22, 2009 / 04:47 pm (CNA).- In a strong response to Congressman Patrick Kennedy’s public revelation that he has been banned from Communion for his stand on abortion, the Bishop of Rhode Island, Thomas Tobin, expressed his “disappointment” and “surprise” at Kennedy’s decision to make public a matter that was private and aimed at his spiritual well-being.

In an interview published on Sunday by the Providence Journal, Congressman Patrick Kennedy (D-Rhode Island), son of the late Edward Kennedy, said that “the bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion.”

Kennedy also said that Bishop Tobin allegedly explained the penalty by telling him “that I am not a good practicing Catholic because of the positions that I’ve taken as a public official.”

The congressman declined to say whether he has obeyed the Bishop’s request.

Later in the day, Bishop Tobin issued a statement clarifying the terms of his decision.

“I am disappointed and really surprised that Congressman Patrick Kennedy has chosen to reopen the public discussion about his practice of the faith and his reception of Holy Communion. This comes almost two weeks after the Congressman indicated to local media that he would no longer comment publicly on his faith or his relationship with the Catholic Church,” Bishop Tobin wrote.

Bishop Tobin said that on February 21, 2007, he wrote to Congressman Kennedy stating that “in light of the Church's clear teaching, and your consistent actions, therefore, I believe it is inappropriate for you to be receiving Holy Communion and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so.

“My request came in light of the new statement of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops that said, ‘If a Catholic in his or her personal or professional life were knowingly and obstinately to repudiate her definite teachings on moral issues, he or she would seriously diminish his or her communion with the Church. Reception of Holy Communion in such a situation would not accord with the nature of the Eucharistic celebration, so that he or she should refrain.’”

In the same letter, Bishop Tobin wrote to Congressman Kennedy: "I am writing to you personally and confidentially as a pastor addressing a member of his flock . . . At the present time I have no need or intention to make this a public issue.”

On February 28, 2007, the Congressman responded to the Bishop stating: “I have the utmost respect for the work you do on behalf of the Catholic community in Rhode Island… I understand your pastoral advice was confidential in nature and given with the best intentions for my personal spiritual welfare.”

“I am disappointed that the Congressman would make public my pastoral and confidential request of nearly three years ago that sought to provide solely for his spiritual well-being,” the bishop wrote in his Sunday statement.

Bishop Tobin explained that he has “no desire” to discuss Congressman Kennedy's spiritual life in public.

“At the same time, I will absolutely respond publicly and strongly whenever he attacks the Catholic Church, misrepresents the teachings of the Church, or issues inaccurate statements about my pastoral ministry. It should be absolutely clear the Congressman himself has once again chosen to make this discussion a matter of public record. In the meantime, I will continue to pray - sincerely and fervently - for his conversion and repentance, and for his personal and spiritual well-being. I wish him well.”

Comments: 62

Subscriber comments:

Published by: Dan
Santa Fe 11/29/2009 12:47 AM EST

'Already in 2004, Cardinal Arinze said a pro-abortion politician "is not fit" to receive Communion. "If they should not receive, then they should not be given," he added. Cardinal Arinze was asked the question so frequently he began to joke about the matter. One such question and answer session even made it to youtube. Arinze is seen on the video as saying that he is regularly asked if a person who votes for abortion can receive Holy Communion. He replies, "Do you really need a cardinal from the Vatican to answer that? Get the children for first Communion and say to them, 'Somebody votes for the killing of unborn babies, and says, I voted for that, I will vote for that every time.' And these babies are killed not one or two, but in millions, and that person says, 'I'm a practicing Catholic', should that person receive Communion next Sunday? The children will answer that at the drop of a hat. You don't need a cardinal to answer that." '

Published by: colleen sheehan
pa usa 11/27/2009 10:11 PM EST

As a friend of mine remarked when I mentioned to him the the Philadelphia Inquirer Editorial Board's piece on Bishop Tobin's recommendation to Rep. Kennedy regarding the taking of sacrament of communion in the Catholic Church, “I didn’t know there were so many theologians on the Inquirer Editorial Board.”

Published by: Joan L. Roccasalvo
Bronx 11/25/2009 06:45 AM EST

The bishops, and Bishop Tobin, need to specify the abortion issue for non-Catholics. This is a human rights issue based on the natural law. And this is why the Church teaches what it does. Bishop Tobin should return to the Chris Matthews Show and carefully explain the objection about penalties and the Church's determination not to enter the legislative process. Mr. Matthews did not give him the chance to say much on this. Fr. Drinan, SJ tutored an entire group of Catholic political leaders to believe in the personal-vs public stance. Now we need courageous and forthright teachers to tutor the next generation on the truth.

Published by: ed mascardo
California 11/24/2009 04:37 PM EST

Hurray for Bishop Tobin. We need more people like you!!! Abortion is murder period. Pro-choice advocates are losing the debate because their only reason for abortion is "right of choice among women" & that's it againts tons of reasons why abortion is ugly. Wake up all abortionists!!!

Published by: jim harkins
sun city center, fl, usa 11/24/2009 03:35 PM EST

More than a half century has passed since Bishop Clemens August Graf von Galen rose to protest a public policy for euthanizing of “unwanted beings” and infuriated the government. Today “progressive America” is incensed that Catholic bishops (and laity) are protesting federal and state legislation to legalize (and fund) the euthanizing million of human fetus’s. This suggests that ersatz-Catholic politicians, eg.: Dodd, Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid, et al, scrupulously avoided classes on history of catholic ethics and morality.

Published by: Michael Futschik
Lake Jackson, TX 11/24/2009 02:32 PM EST

Former theology grad - you stated that "Jesus wouldn't refuse to break bread with him." How do you know this?... certainly not from your theology training, else you would know that it was Jesus himself who stated that an offending brother who has refused private admonishment and subsequent public correction is to be ostracized from the church community; i.e., he is to be treated as an outsider and a heathen. How can you admit such a one to table fellowship and share Holy Communion yet treat the same person as an outsider and a heathen? Was Paul in error when he excommunicated a man in the Church in Corinth for sleeping with his step-mother? You also stated that we were not commanded to judge - wrong again. Of course we are not to misjudge or prejudge or hypocritically judge, but according to Jesus and St. Paul, we certainly can and should admonish the sinner, which requires making a judgment.

Published by: Tee More
Alpine CA 11/24/2009 01:41 PM EST

"Lashes out...?" Just who are you representing? If anything, the tone of Bshp Tobin was most kind, charitable and "pastoral." His concern is for the immortal soul of Patrick Kennedy, and he surely showed concern for Kennedy's "feelings," not to further alienate him. I would hardly consider, call this "lashing out."

Published by: Manda
KC, MO 11/24/2009 12:53 PM EST

I think it's fair to mention that anyone who attends Mass with mortal sin on their soul (ie encouraging anyone to have an abortion whether through political action, personal inaction, or verbal interaction with another human being) is asked to refrain from receiving Jesus. The way to receive Him is to receive absolution through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Part of the Sacrament of Reconciliation is for the penetant to say, themselves, that they will sin no more and avoid the near occasion of sin. If someone attends this Sacrament with no desire to change their life, then the Sacrament is null and void. Thank you, Bishop Tobin, for being one of the few courageous Bishops!

Published by: Antonette
Yonkers, New York USA 11/24/2009 10:45 AM EST

God Bless Bishop Tobin! It is about time that someone take a stand. I applaud Bishop Tobin and wish many other Bishops had that kind of "hutzpah". If everday Roman Catholics have to abide by the teachings of the Church then who gives Mr. Kennedy the right to publicly exhort his disdain for the Roman Catholic Church's teachings would he make these comments directly to the Pope????? Mr. Kennedy has been led down the wrong path for too long due to the inexcusable entitlements that have been given to the "Kennedy clan" for far to long. We must continue to keep Mr. Kennedy and the entire family in prayer and ask for The Holy Spirit to overshadow them for conversion of heart, mind and soul.

Published by: wm
us 11/24/2009 10:40 AM EST

Kennedy chose to make the gist of Tobin's communication public in a pathetic attempt to foster more discontent against the Church among the rank-and-file Kennedy worshipers: "Poor me, I've been cast out." It's an old psychological ploy to gain sympathy and win supporters, but only works for the weak-minded.

Published by: Mike Robiolio
Darlington, WI 11/23/2009 10:16 PM EST

Rate: Very Good

Reading the comments it appears that most of you are missing the point. It is not about defending the faith nor using the Eucharist as a weapon. It's not about deciding with whom Jesus would or would not break bread. It is not about kicking out pseudocatholics. It is about a bishop counseling a catholic individual of high public visibility under his authority. It is about counseling him PRIVATELY and truthfully, that partaking of communion when in outright opposition to a clear church doctrine is wrong and dangerous to that individual. This is tough love. It applies to abortion, to contraception, to homosexuality, to cohabitation as well as to neglecting care to the poor, widowed, orphaned, prisoners, or whatever church doctrine is opposed. It is not about judgement by us, but by the legitamite authority, the bishop, with regard to the faith, as infallibly taught by the magesterium of the church. We should not be happy about the action of having to turn anyone away, even for his or her own good, necessary though it may be, for the sake of his soul.

Published by: Catholic 4 Life
NV 11/23/2009 09:59 PM EST

To former theology grad, no one with mortal sin on their soul should present themselves for Communion. Catholic politicians who favor legalized abortion, even if claiming to object to it personally, are committing a mortal sin by promoting abortion. Therefore, they are unworthy to receive the Eucharist. Venial sin does not exclude one from receiving. So, your argument that everyone going to Communion is a sinner is invalid. Patrick Kennedy condemns himself by taking Communion unworthily. His bishop had the moral obligation as Kennedy's spiritual advisor to warn him that he should not be presenting himself for Communion. Kennedy is not going to be able to get a second opinion in the media on Judgment Day.

Published by: DLL
scituate Mass. USA 11/23/2009 07:56 PM EST

Love one another as I have loved you. To do this we must bend to the other and repent of our sins. We all need to say I am sorry. The aborted are like Christ as they are love rejected. They represent the lives that could never be lived. They represent love never received. They are lost potential for a world in turmoil so they represent the opportunity for a resolving solution of peace that is lost forever. They could not contribute in life because they were never given the chance. Their loss of life is our loss. When we all take communion we must remember those lost to abortion just as those lost through needless wars. We all are the cause of this misery of abortion as well as wars but we are also the solution. To love each other is to remember Christ in the Eucharist and in so doing we must remember and think of each other ,living or dead, with love and a hope that all may receive salvation. No position on any issue is more important than to remember each other in Christ with love. The Eucharist is the opportunity for this communal sharing of an eternal hope for truth which is Jesus Christ,to live through each of us as we are the body of Christ.

Published by: Allan Wafkowski
NJ 11/23/2009 06:44 PM EST

The "news" reports forgot to mention that Bishop Tobin's message to Kennedy was 3 years old. Bishop Tobin would have been remiss had he not clearly told Kennedy that his soul was in danger, and that his actions were a scandal to the Body of Christ and its members. The bishop's actions have been blameless and in good faith. Oh, why to the heathen rage!

Published by: Rosa
NY, USA 11/23/2009 05:44 PM EST

FINALLY a leader that has the courage to go up against a most arrogant and hypocritical man and his father...Patrick made it a public political issue for his own gain, at least that is what he thinks, at the expense of the church...i am so happy to hear the words of the Bishop and letting him and the world know that he and the Catholic church will not stand for double standards and demeaning of the faith...there is One faith and One Jesus Christ and He gave us his gospel and the commandaments to follow. Patrick is on the losing end of this issue and has made himself transparent for what he and his father are all about...hypocrites. God bless you Father Tobin and you have us to count on to be at your side when you need us...

Published by: SaraH
Elkhart, IN 11/23/2009 04:56 PM EST

Seth, just thought I would mention that the Bishops conference is in favor of health care reform (with limits on abortion coverage) and many have spoken against the Iraqi war, so chances are...those are concerns of his.

Published by: Francis Xavier T
Washington, D.C. 11/23/2009 04:44 PM EST

Wow!!! I hope Patrick Kennedy or his aids are monitoring this comment forum so he will finally wake up. I like William James and Bob's comments. To the former Catholic Barbara Parot, please follow this story from the beginning. Patrick Kennedy launched an un-provoke attack on all the Catholic bishops first. Every current member of the Catholic Church has the right to defend his/her bishops. I suggest that you should stop judging the Catholic Church and Her members. Fair?

Published by: Former theology grad
Marshfield, MA 11/23/2009 04:20 PM EST

Rate: Regular

Jesus knew that no other man or woman could live a perfect life if judged by laws alone. He came so that could live by the spirit of the law. When we stand in line for the Eucharist on Sunday (or Monday and Tuesday) there is no one in line without some sin. I wish others weren't so high and mighty. Their sins (and mine) of judgment may equal Patrick's - whatever his are. Jesus wouldn't refuse to break bread with him. Neither should the Church. We were commanded to love. We weren't commanded to judge. Celebrate anyone who wants to participate in the adoration and worship of God, especially in the Eucharist. Pray for inspiration for all. Pray for the lives in utero, but remember, please that our first commandment is to love one another. Judging will not help to fill any of the empty pews in our churches.

Published by: Richard Carroll
Hamden CT 11/23/2009 03:43 PM EST

Rate: Regular

Personally, I agree with trapvet and Alan. The Eucharist is not a weapon to be used against politicians who presumably are doing their best to represent all of their constituents, not just their conservative Catholic ones.

Published by: poptoy
Eunice, Louisiana 11/23/2009 01:58 PM EST

and Kennedy's will be Kennedy's. They want it their way. Not GOD'S way.

Published by: Rose Harper
Austin 11/23/2009 01:53 PM EST

Hooray for holy, courageous Bishope and priests! Many of the so called Catholic politicians have gotten away with literal murder and it about time that they be reminded of the faith they were confirmed in...there is objective TRUTH...it is not a thing, but a PERSON, Our Lord Jesus Christ. Come on, Pelosi, and all other politicians who choose death for our inheritance over LIFE, who is JESUS. He is the only one who has authority over life and death. Life is a gift, not a choice. Stop being influenced by polls and $$$ from the Planned Parenthood lobbyist!!! No amount of $$ is worth a single life! Already 1/3 of my children's generation has been wiped out because of abortion. Why do you think they have to go to websites to find their true loves? Because the person that God picked out for them from the beginning of time has been killled in the womb. Please, Dear Lord, heal our nation. We repent and do penance for the sins of the culture of death. Forgiive us through your Divine Mercy. Amen

Published by: Michael Futschik
Lake Jackson, TX 11/23/2009 01:45 PM EST

Barbara Parot: So are you saying that Jesus was not teaching with love when he admonished his disciples treat an unrepentant brother as an outsider and a heathen? Are you saying that St. Paul was teaching hate when he admonished members of the church in Corinth to excommunicate from their community a man who was sleeping with his step-mother. By the way, Paul exactly says the opposite of what you are proposing; namely, that we as Christians are indeed suppose to judge those INSIDE the church if they are pubicly and obstinatly presisting in grave sin. Sounds like you misunderstand that admonishment does not preclude love, and in fact admonishment can actually be an act of love. Sorry that you left the Catholic Church, but it sounds like the Church is doing exactly what Jesus taught.

Published by: MAC
SC-USA 11/23/2009 01:24 PM EST

About time one of the boys in black stood up for something other than money and fame---------and about time the Kennedy's sat down and shut up----------

Published by: poptoy
Eunice, Louisiana 11/23/2009 01:17 PM EST

Kennedy's will be Kennedy's. They won't listen to anybody. They are always right. They are NEVER wrong. They know better than the more than 2000 year old Catholic Church. Is this actually so surprising? Kinda reminds me of Grandpa Joe when he was pro Hitler. These people do what they want and you better listen or else. Imagine that?!.

Published by: WW2 Marine Veteran
Tucson, AZ USA 11/23/2009 01:16 PM EST

Patrick is running true to form. He should be excommunicated unless he changes his political position on abortion.

Published by: Mauvianne
Livermore, CA 11/23/2009 12:27 PM EST

Rate: Excellent

Although I am not a Catholic, I am born again. When I heard the words of Bishop Tobin I said "A true leader with courage!" Bravo for Biship Tobin standing up straight for what is right and exposing the darkeness! God bless you sir! You have proven that you live by your motto! I am so proud of you!

Published by: Nicholas
Newtown, PA 11/23/2009 12:14 PM EST

Pro-choice(abort) Catholics, especially politicians, are modern day Pontius Pilots; they think they can wash their hands of cooperating with evil by hiding behind a twisted interpretation of freedom. It's ironic that moral authority is convenient to convict the Church but inconvenient to address its members. Truth is not relative or popular, evil is.

Published by: Barbara Parot
St Charles, IL, USA 11/23/2009 10:50 AM EST

Rate: Regular

I am a former Catholic. I "left"the Catholic Church because I could not tolerate its teachings toward of hate. I need to listen to teachings of love. I am not a proponent of abortion. In fact, I have an adopted son. However, there is a firm line between morality and legality. I spoke to a Protestant minister whose words I will never forget, i.e., 'MY JOB IS To LOVE YOU. IT IS GOD'S JOB TO JUDGE YOU." I suggest the Catholic Church stop judging and start loving.

Published by: dennis kay
Chicago/IL/USA 11/23/2009 10:35 AM EST

Rate: Excellent

Thank you Bishop Tobin. Holy Communion is not a what - it is a WHO. You have begun the restoration of the practice of Catholic values. We will all benefit from your action and, I hope, the actions of your fellow Bishops who service people like Pelosi, Biden, Kerry, Durbin and others.

Published by: Cynthia
Nashville, TN 11/23/2009 10:04 AM EST

To: trapvet American bishops have always been 100% clear in teaching that direct taking of innocent life is always wrong. This is part of Natural Law which is fundamental to humanity - not "just" Church teaching. Throughout history the death penalty for people proven guilty of heinous crimes certainly is not always immoral. I'm unsure in today's American penal system if it is moral or not. I think in some cases, it is wrong, but not all. The universal Church doesn't claim political authority in civil law unless that civil law violates the natural or moral law. I lament the accidental taking of innocent lives in any war and I know that atrocities do take place during wars. I pray for solders and civilians regarding these things. I do, however,take little comfort in your "guidance" on whether the war in Iraq is justifiable or not. I simply do not accept your authority as my moral guide - therefore I do not belong to "the church of the trapvets (nor of the Patrick Kennedies)." I'll continue to accept the authority of the Church magisterium on faith and morals - and try to live my life accordingly - therefore I claim to be Catholic.

Published by: Edmund
Nauvoo, Illinois, USA 11/23/2009 10:01 AM EST

A few quick points - 1. Trapvet-note that the Church has long recognized that war can be justified, and note as well that there are many theologians who believe the war in Iraq was justifiable. 2. Alan-note that you don't have to use anything other than basic reason to promote the pro-life cause. Rep. Kennedy has not only shed his faith but also the best part of his humanity! 3. "Lashes out?" Please.

Published by: Arkyump
arkansas 11/23/2009 09:55 AM EST

This is the classic private/public revelation that sinners love to get into when they are caught in a private matter and decide to go public hoping to obtain justice and judgement from their peers. Already ex-governor Cuomo has come to Kennedy's defense by chastising the Bishop. If Kennedy gets enough "catholics" to be on his side then he will have his vindication and his acceptance of his deeds. And I'm sure that God is OK with that! The whole "separation of Catholic teaching from politics" was the fault of JFK and RFK in the 60's when they tried to separate catholic from politics in order to get the progressive democratic vote. They were very successful in doing so and started the separation of personal conscience and public religious dogma from their stance on public issues. There are so many Catholics who are not catholics in congress that just because they are catholics doesn't mean that I will vote for them. In fact, I'm disinclined not to vote for them since they represent the wrong ecclesial stance that I believe in. As far as using communion as a weapon, I don't think it should be done in public but in private it is OK with me. After all, the Bishop(s) is(are) doing his(their) moral duties by pointing out the potential of sin in our lives. Unfortunately, there are not enough Bishops performing their ecclesial duties.

Published by: KENNEDY FAMILY
Melbourne Australia 11/23/2009 09:37 AM EST

Rate: Excellent

This PROLIFE KENNEDY Family Pro says well done to Bishop Tobin who, should be both CONGRATULATED and APPLAUDED for doing Mr Kennedy a big favor by trying to get Mr Kennedy back on track and in harmony with the pro life teachings of the Church. Now all human life (preborn included) is such a precious gift from God So a CONSISTENT Pro Life stance is required from ALL Catholics because those that deviate here may at times cause confusion to others! People in public office should be good role models, both proud of and true to their faith as others may look to their behaviour and copy it! At times it such a sell out for some Catholic politicians to take the easy way out and vote anti- life to appease the anti life lobby groups. but no reasons are ever ever good enough to publicy condone and suport abortion! So life aint just for misguided politicians! Life is ALSO for the innocent, defenceless, unborn that Bishop Tobin so bravely defends! How politicians forget that they too were once the innocent unborn is so hard to fathom! Its time some Catholic politicians wake up they cant have it both ways you cant vote pro abortion and then expect blind acceptance of such a repugnant action from the Church! These pro abortion politicians could make life far easier for themselves if they both accepted and acted on the teachings of the Church ! Thinking of all the innocent lives any politician would help to save by voting pro life should be compelling/incentive in itself.

Published by: Jerry
Ridgefield, CT 11/23/2009 09:14 AM EST

I'm sorry Alan but supporting the murder of unborn children can never be an option if one is a true Catholic. Kennedy should have run as a pro-life Democrat to begin with. Civil rights laws never would have been passed under your line of reasoning.

Published by: Karen
Texas 11/23/2009 09:05 AM EST

How do you like this headline,"Bishop Tobin lashes out..."? As I read the bishop's words, I did not detect a "lashing" but a calm, decent response.Kennedy is the one who chose to bring this public. The bishop had the right to explain his position. Thank God for a bishop who will speak the truth.

Published by: Susannah
USA 11/23/2009 08:31 AM EST

IMO, Roman Catholics in this Country, yearn for Bishop's/Priest in this Country to speak out against individuals, especially Politicians who are Catholic in name only, yet push their own agends directly against the Church and her beliefs. Bishop Tobin did the right thing, and I support him 100%, he need not apologize his decision as Kennedy brought it into the ublic arena. The Kneedy's all feel as if they are above everything & everyone including God and the Church. Kennedy is lucky that he was only instructed not to receive the Blessed sacrament, he should be excommunicated all together as he is not in union w/the Church or her teachings. Bishop Tobin served as a Priest in my Parish in Pa, he is an excellant Priest, God Bless him.

Published by: Kaisar
Canada 11/23/2009 08:28 AM EST

wow Alan, within the few lines you wrote, contradictions couldn't help but arise. You said you're a "devout Catholic" and yet the "Church is not the moral conscience of the world"??? strange, what kind of a "devout Catholic" could you be? Thank God for Bishop Tobin's wisdom, I hope all other bishops will follow suit.

Published by: seth
princeton, nj, usa 11/23/2009 08:18 AM EST

I never heard of Bishop Tobin or his stance on the Iraq War or health care for those that have none. wonder if he was ever concerned about those issues.

Published by: Theo
Columbus/OH/USA 11/23/2009 08:11 AM EST

Praise be Jesus Christ Now and Forever! Bishop Tobin is absolutely correct and compassionate in his dealings with this wayward sinner of his flock. Congressman Kennedy has by his example shown the inability to master his immediate "wants" and lack self control. In other words, Patrick Kennedy is a spoiled child. I find it astounding that Kennedy would believe that he can snub his knows at God Himself, and not find anyone offended by his actions. Well, Praise God for Bishop Tobin. Jesus good and faithful servant. I am proud of our Catholic Leaders.

Published by: Malcolm
Perth, Western Australia 11/23/2009 08:05 AM EST

If Atheistic politicians or pro-abortion ones allow their atheism or pro-abortion views to influence their decisions why should Catholic politicians not be allowed the same right?

Published by: Greg
Dallas, TX 11/23/2009 07:50 AM EST

Alan and trapvet, one can't credibly dissent from something of which one is ignorant. You aren't dissenting from Catholic teaching, you are ignorant of Catholic teaching about: - the Real Presence in the Eucharist (Start by looking up the word "communion" in any dictionary, but don't stop there.) - abortion, the death penalty, and war (Start by reading those sections of the Catechism, if you want to eliminate what I will credit to you as willful ignorance, rather than assuming you are unable to understand those teachings.) - a bishop's responsibility to teach and enforce the doctrines of the Catholic Church (That responsibility is not contingent upon your agreeing with those doctrines.), and - the Constitution of the United States (Start with reading the Establishment Clause, which says nothing about separation of church and state, then try to understand what the term democratic republic means. The opinion of a majority of Rep. Kennedy's constituents does not abrogate his moral responsibilities. If that majority wanted ignorant statements silenced, would you want him to vote to take away your right to make them?)

Published by: Thomas G.
Alexandria, VA 11/23/2009 07:21 AM EST

"Lashes Out"??? Who at CNA wrote that headline? It sounds like a NY Times leader, frankly, and casts the Bishop in a negative light. Why?

Published by: Bob
Phila/PA/USA 11/23/2009 06:37 AM EST

Alan: "I find it astounding that the Church has an expectation that an elected official that is a Catholic has a responsibility to follow Church teaching first and the desire of his constituants second." With 71% of Americans against abortion, possibly the desire of Kennedy's constituents is pro-life? To protect the lives (born and unborn) IS the primary perogatove of an elected official.And why is a Catholic like congressman Chris Smith (NJ)so pro-life? He's doing what's right for his constituents. Bishop Tobin is 100% correct, Kennedy is 100% wrong. Denying Kennedy is an act of charity by the bishop. It looks like Kennedy does not have a good understanding of the Church or the Eucharist.

Published by: John
Oakdale, PA 11/23/2009 06:35 AM EST

Alan, I completely disagree with your logic, but even if I stipulate to it, the majority of Americans disagree with abortion. So even based on your flawed reasoning, since he should represent the majority opinion of his constituency, Kennedy should be against the killing of the most innocent of human life. As for comparing trapvet's comment comparing the Iraq war to abortion, there are more abortions in 2 days in America than soldiers killed in the entire Iraq conflict since the beginning. Abortion is always a grave sin, that is not a subject of debate. The Iraq war could be the subject of a debate as to whether or not it is just. You cannot compare the two on a theological basis of justification. Tobin's actions were entirely consistent with church teaching and appropriate pastoral care for someone who is engaging in grave sin.

Published by: William James
Sacramento/ CA/USA 11/23/2009 02:41 AM EST

I just saw Patrick Kennedy on tonight's news. Although Bishop Tobin's private letter askng him not to take communion was written almost three years ago, he insinuated that the Bishop had denied him communion in order to pressure him to vote against abortion funding in the government health plan now. Obviously, this was disingenuous and shows utter contempt for the Church. Kennedy tried to spin himself as a hero who, despite pressure from his bishop, would "vote his conscience" on abortion. Normally, I would never call for excommunication. In this case, however, Mr. Kennedy has excommunicated himself. I will pray for him.

Published by: Blake Helgoth
Monument/CO/USA 11/23/2009 01:17 AM EST

Alan, Um, an elected official is elected to lead, not to be a puppet for his constituents who do not have the info. or expertise to act on it. Elected official are suppose to act in the best interest of their constituents, adhering to the truth as best as they are able. If an elected official is Catholic, that means he believe that the teaching of the Church are true because they come from Jesus Christ Himself and that following them is in the best interest of his constituents. Oh, and by the way, the founding fathers set up the separation of Church and state so that the Gov. would not interfere with the Church, not the other way around. you need to revisit your history. One more thing, I am not sure what you mean by devout, but a devout Catholic means that they follow Jesus Christ as best as they can, aided by grace, by forming their conscience to the truth, i.e. the teaching of Church.

Published by: Peter Paul
Annandale, Virginia 11/23/2009 01:10 AM EST

Mr. Alan, you stated that the fathers of this natinon set in the Constitution a seperation between "Church" and state. Do you know why? I give you a clue---how many of the founding fathers were Catholics? I believe in the separation between the military power and the Church. Vatican is both a Church and State that does not military power. By thy way, many Catholics today believe that abortion is murder too. You are a little behind times.

Published by: John J
Falls Chruch, Virginia 11/23/2009 01:01 AM EST

Alan in Seattle, the founding fathers of this nation never intented to include devout Catholics in the First Amendment, the Freedom of Religion. Archbishop John Carroll was credited to lobbied this clause into the Constitution. Catholic children were not allowed to go to public schools with other children those days and they had to be home schooling. If the Catholic bishops did not fight for your right then, you wouldn't even be able to openly claim that you are a devout Catholic today. Sure, the Catholic Church has a lot of cleaning house to do. Bishop Thomas Tobin is merely fighting for the voiceless defenseless unborn children according to the Catholic teaching. You have to a communist to believe the separation of Church and State, unless you can find me another country on earth that doesn't rely on their religiouis moral value as their foundation of the laws. Religious or not, abortion is premeditated murder---period.

Published by: Ted
Melbourne 11/23/2009 12:13 AM EST

Alan, the separation between church and state is not "set in the Constitution."

Published by: David
La Mesa CA USA 11/23/2009 12:06 AM EST

The Didache, written ca. 50, and I'm pretty sure is apostolic in origin, states this:(Did 2.2h): "You shall not murder a child by abortion or by killing it once it is born." This is one item in a list of several dozen do's and don'ts in the earliest known church catechism. The Didache is truly a remarkable find. Such a pity that it's special status is known only to a few scholarly specialists. People I've showed the Didache to are often disbelieving, first of all, that abortion was practiced in the 1st. century; yet this fact can be easily confirmed by a number of sources. People also doubt that the Lord and His Apostles would address abortion. But this Didache text is truly a smoking gun. Given the modern emphasis on this issue, isnt' this Didache a remarkable irony? When the Didache was found in 1873, many Christians were thrilled, but then were promptly disappointed and unduly influence by early critical scholars who assigned it a late date. More recent scholarship is much more persuasive in assigning this text to the 40s-early 50s. I don't wish to offend the Church, but I find it such a pity that the canon was set in 360s, thereby causing us to lose this authentic voice the Lord's words-- perhaps the earliest recorded. Peace Truth Love in God

Published by: TJM
Dallas/TX/ 11/22/2009 11:55 PM EST

Trapvet...what's your point? The bishops are empowered and charged with keeping the one true faith. Government sponsored killing (abortion, death penalty) are not consistent with Church dogma. And war is tolerated only when a clear danger exists. Neither the Iraq nor Afghanistan conflicts have proven a clear danger to America. So those who have promulgated and continue to promote these conflicts (not necessarily the soldiers) must answer for their deeds. Kennedy betrayed a confidential trust he himself acknowledged! I pity the citizens of the state of RI who are so poorly represented by someone who lacks civility and rejects his own Church's teaching. No backbone.

Published by: Mandi
Birmingham, AL 11/22/2009 11:54 PM EST

While I donot believe in the death penalty I do not believe it compares to the issue of abortion. An innocent life with no voice is being taken each time a fetus is aborted. I do not believe we have the right to kill a baby or a person on death row but they are not the same thing. And I support and applaud Bishop Tobin for standing up to politicians claiming they are Catholic and yet not following the beliefs of the Catholic faith. We believe abortion is wrong.

Published by: Tim
Laconia, NH, USA 11/22/2009 11:41 PM EST

trap vet: the death penalty is opposed by the Church, but it is not seen as an evil anywhere on scale with abortion. In fact, the Church has said that at times the death penalty could be justifiable for the good of society (but our society has no need to kill hardened criminals to prevent anarchy) Abortion on the other hand takes 1.5 to 2 million lives a year in this country alone, and all of those lives belong to innocent children....and abortion can never be justified because it is not homicied out of concern for justice, it is murder to out of a concern for expediency. The Iraq war can in no way be seen as a violation of Church doctrine. It was foolish, but Pope JPII and the current Pope both admitted the need for coalition troops to keep order now that they were there....furthermore, while the war may have been a mistake, it deposed a vicious tyrant....for you to put that on the level of abortion is spiritually immature. God bless Bishop Tobin for his courage and humility toward the Truth..... Trap vet, I admire your sense of justice, but it needs further guidance before you can criticize our bishops.

Published by: Marcus
Arizona 11/22/2009 11:08 PM EST

Before Patrick said his conversations with the church is a "private matter". Now he announces it to everyone. Something is going on here.

Published by: John
USA 11/22/2009 10:39 PM EST

trapvet, Take a deep breath - it seems that many people don't actually understand what the Church teaches. Abortion, as every Catholic should know, is an intrinsic evil. This means that there is never a circumstance or personal intention that can make it morally acceptable. The Church has always taught this. The Church's teaching regarding the death penalty and just war are very different. The Church has never said that the death penalty is an intrinsic evil - it only has said recently that it sees no reason for it in the historical circumstances today. Therefore, a debate can be had as to the need or justification for it in different circumstances. Likewise with considerations on war - the just war doctrine clearly states that certain wars can be acceptable (I'm not saying the Iraq war was one of them), therefore, debate and conversation can exist on this topic as well - though I think good Catholics should take their direction from Church teaching.

Published by: Kristy
Glendale, Calif. USA 11/22/2009 10:29 PM EST

As Catholics, we are one of the last standing christian dominations that refuses to change just because the world says we should. I am so happy to be apart of a church that really takes the teachings of Christ, the apostles and the prophets seriously. Eternity is a long time and obviously bishop tobin wants us to spend it with our Lord and savior Jesus. Thank you Bishop Tobin

Published by: Catholicus
Green Bay WI 11/22/2009 10:18 PM EST

Rate: Very Good

There can be no doubt that Bishop Tobin acted correctly. His letter was clear and of a fine pastoral spirit. His brother bishops should follow suit.

Published by: Alan
Seattle 11/22/2009 10:14 PM EST

Rate: Bad

I find it astounding that the Church has an expectation that an elected official that is a Catholic has a responsibility to follow Church teaching first and the desire of his constituants second. This is why our founding fathers set in the Constitution a seperation between Church and state. I am a devout Catholic, but the Church is not, nor has it ever been selected as, the moral conscience of the world. If it wants this role, it needs to get it's own house in order, and it has a long way to go in acheving this end!

Published by: trapvet
NJ - USA 11/22/2009 05:48 PM EST

Rate: Bad

I get it, Bishop. You're going to ask all pro-death penalty Catholic politicians to abstain from receiving Communion as well. Also those who supported the unjustifiable Iraq War. You're gonna be busy. I hope you have help.

Published by: GFM
St. Louis, MO 11/22/2009 05:33 PM EST

Rate: Very Good

Bishop Tobin is doing the proper thing in light of Kennedy making this pastoral matter public. I fear there will be fall out for Bishop Tobin from brother bishops. Second, Tobin is wise to go on the offensive with the press, He couldn't have been more clear than he has been and he is clearly defining what the Church teaches.

Published by: Maria
Wisconsin USA 11/22/2009 05:26 PM EST

Rate: Excellent

Hooray for Bishop Tobin!! No doubt many bishops have had this type of conversation with their pro-abortion politicians. Kennedy obviously made it public because he thinks it benefits him politically. Kennedy should be grateful to Bishop Tobin, by preventing him from receiving communion when he's not in a state of grace the Bishop is safeguarding Kennedy's soul. I hope Kennedy's eyes are opened to the horror of abortion and I hope he repents and comes back to the church!

Published by: Francis
Wareham MA 11/22/2009 05:09 PM EST

Rate: Very Good

God bless bishop Tobin!! He is a true shepherd of the Church. Patrick Kennedy, like his father Ted before him, is an apostate and a heretic!!! If Patrick Kennedy refuses to repent for his sins and continues to defy the teachings of Christ and his Catholic Church then Kennedy should be EXCOMMUNICATED!!! Along with the rest of these pseudo "Catholics" like Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and others.

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