Bishop Tobin’s response to Rep. Kennedy ‘eminently reasonable,’ non-Catholic political expert says

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Comments: 23

Washington D.C., Nov 25, 2009 / 04:40 am (CNA).- A non-Catholic political expert says Bishop Thomas Tobin’s request that U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy refrain from receiving Holy Communion is “eminently reasonable” and an “appropriate” encouragement of the Congressman to examine his commitment to his faith.

Rep. Kennedy, a Rhode Island Democrat and son of the late U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy, was criticized by Bishop Tobin of Providence for his attacks on the Catholic bishops’ opposition to abortion funding in health care legislation. Recently, Kennedy revealed that Bishop Tobin had asked him to refrain from receiving communion because of his public contradiction of Catholic teaching.

Peter Roff, a senior fellow at the Institute for Liberty and a former senior political writer for United Press International, wrote at FoxNews.com that Americans look to “our institutions of faith” to define moral issues like abortion. Though not a Catholic, he said he understands the hierarchical nature of the Church and the role doctrine plays within it.

Speaking with “the greatest respect,” he said that the Catholic Church is not a place where “free thinking” about doctrinal issues is encouraged.

“There is such thing as absolute truth and not all things are relative or left to the discretion of the believer,” Roff continued. If Rep. Kennedy wishes to consider himself Catholic, he should “show appropriate deference to church teachings” about life beginning at conception and about abortion being a sin.

He said the issue is being “spun” as a case of a church trying to impose its will on politicians who represent a “cross-section of the world’s religions.”

While some critics of Bishop Tobin invoke Thomas Jefferson’s phrase about the “wall of separation between Church and State,” Roff said this line appears nowhere in the U.S. Constitution. Jefferson was out of the country when the Constitution was written and the phrase is his own opinion as president in an 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists in Connecticut.

Nowhere does Jefferson suggest that the church should be “prohibited from enforcing its own disciplines within its own walls among its own members, even where matters of public policy are concerned.”

The purpose of the First Amendment, in Roff’s view, was to “protect the faithful from coercion by the state,” not to protect the state from “interference from the church.”

However, he said, it is hard to see how Bishop Tobin’s request is interference.

“If Congressman Kennedy wishes his church to consider him a Catholic in good standing, then he best pay attention to its concerns and act accordingly,” Roff’s essay at FoxNews.com concluded.

Comments: 23

Subscriber comments:

Published by: Bill Bolton
Los Alamitos, CA, USA 11/28/2009 01:32 AM EST

Thomas of NY (11-25, 10:57 a.m.) misstates the interaction between Vatican & Stephen Hawking. Hawking is an avowed atheist, and in his books show that he was troubled to hear that the Vatican did not mind the Big Bang theory.

Published by: Dessie
Ireland 11/26/2009 05:27 PM EST

Bishop Tobin is to be congratulated for the way in which he dealt with the situation of Senator Kennedy, with compassion, sensitivety and truth. Peter Roff's support for Biship Tobin stance should be a wake up call to all Catholics.

Published by: barnabas
canada 11/26/2009 05:24 PM EST

Patrick Kennedy, born into the faith showes himself for what he is "A progressive christian"7 [13-17] The uncertainty of life (James 4:14), its complete dependence on God, and the necessity of submitting to God's will (James 4:15) all help one know and do what is right (James 4:17). To disregard this is to live in pride and arrogance (James 4:16); failure to do what is right is a sin (James 4:17). Peter Roff, is as Catholic as THE POPE in his understanding of these matters.

Published by: KENNEDY FAMILY
Melbourne Australia 11/26/2009 05:10 AM EST

Rate: Excellent

If Mr Kennedy was just acting like a true Catholic should, the Bishop Tobin here would have no need to speak up to try to get Mr Kennedy back on track! So to all those pro abortion politicians like Mr Kennedy here wake up pro life Catholics are so fed up with you! The bishops have enough to do already without having to spend time trying to save your errant souls! Pro abortion politicians* should all be so grateful that the Bishops care enough for them to intervene before it is too late! Well they the bishops could let them* continue to veer off track! but what good is a man who inherits the earth, but loses his soul! So again well done Bishop Tobin for your defence of those that have no voice, our most innocent unborn, the next generation! Bishop, You give joy to so many who relish that you have the courage to say what so many others should be saying, ie dont brazenly defy the Church teachings re preborn life and then expect to take the host! Well shouldnot the soul should be in a state of grace to take the host voting pro abortion tarnishes the soul! simple as that

Published by: Dan
Santa Fe 11/26/2009 03:18 AM EST

Fr. Sirico states: 'The Catholic Catechism says: “For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: ‘Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother. The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger. Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin. Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man.” '

Published by: David Casson
Warwick 11/26/2009 01:09 AM EST

“By asking Kennedy to act of his own volition, rather than threaten to deny him the sacraments or ordering those subservient to him in the church to refuse to offer them, Bishop Tobin is encouraging the Congressman to consider his commitment to his faith -- something one should argue is the appropriate role for a member of the clergy,” Roff commented. Gosh, I'm a little tired right now, so maybe the synapses aren't firing as they should, but if I'm not mistaken, Bishop Tobin DID refuse Congressman Kennedy Holy Communion, and DID order his priests in the Diocese of Providence to follow his lead. Am I missing something?

Published by: Gabe
Carlsbad, CA, USA 11/25/2009 08:37 PM EST

I would have no problem with the bishop refusing Communion to Kennedy if the bishops were consistent. I understand them protecting the unborn. What I do not understand is that they do not protect children after they are born. Does the human life decrease in value after the child leaves the womb? If not, then why did not bishops protect thousands of innocent children from being raped and sodomized by sexually predatory priests? Why did they transfer these priests from place to place and lie about them? Guess they will only fight over protecting a child's rights when it suits them. And why do these priests and the bishops who lied for them not only get to receive Communion, but consecrate the host? Seems to me that Jesus said something about having a millstone tied around their necks and them being thrown into the river to drown!

Published by: JMDL
Washington, UT 11/25/2009 05:44 PM EST

The Fifth Commandment states that we shall not kill (actually MURDER). The Ten Commandments of course apply to Christians and Jews, but most cultures seem to oppose killing (murdering). Killing an infant, in or out to the womb, is murder. No Roman Catholic — or any Catholic or any real Christian — should consider overruling the 10 Tenth Commandment. Please note, the commandment refers murder and murder is a crime against God, humanity and the individual victim. No amount of rationalizing can change the fact, however inconvenient it may be. Abortion is killing — murdering — a child. Even senators should realize that.

Published by: Francis Xavier T
Washington, D.C. 11/25/2009 02:37 PM EST

Emily, Fr. Cory Sticha is correct. Furthermore, U.S. Justices do not make laws and they are not advocate to side or to lobby with any issue. Besides, no matter how you look at it, religiously or not, abortion is a matter of pre-meditated murder against voiceless defenseless a human being in this civilized country. Archbishop of Houston Cardinal DiNardo lectured the pro-life issue in front of these U.S. Justices and the Vice President on October 4 during the Red Mass right here in Washington D.C. I'm not sure about the VP but all the Justices paid attentive attention to the homily very well. Patrick Kennedy launched an unprovoked attack on all the bishops and the Catholic Church first and then he went public about Bishop Tobin's private pastoral advice to him from 2007 in order to attack the bishop. I'm sorry Emily. Every Catholic has the right to defend his/her Church and bishop. I don't know what kind of Catholic are you.

Published by: Annie Gonzales
Eagle Pass, Texas USA 11/25/2009 01:39 PM EST

The TRUTH has to be upheld. Thank God for the Catholic leaders who uphold it and confirm it. We live in a world that lies are made glamorous and twisted to 'make sense'. We need great leaders like Bishop Tobin to lead us in the right direction instead of sef interest,

Published by: Mike Daniel
Magnolia AR USA 11/25/2009 01:39 PM EST

The bishop, as a spiritual leader, has a moral duty as well as the obligation of his office to speak publicly when circumstances dictate. Unless I am mistaken, Mr. Kennedy has been quoted publicly, regarding abortion, as saying, "As a Catholic ..." He mustn't do this unless he is prepared to accept the consequences of his actions and words, but he should not pretend he speaks for the Church. He is speaking purely for himself not as a Catholic but as a pro-abortion Democrat. It is not a matter of Church interference or Rome's interference in US public policy. Bishop Tobin is speaking relevantly and truthfully not only as a spiritual leader but as a US citizen. Mr. Kennedy can accept this or not, but this is the extent of his "free thinking": that he is with the Church or not, not kinda-sorta.

Published by: eric m
canton,ohio,U.S.A. 11/25/2009 01:36 PM EST

If a high school basketball team has a player that makes a shot at the wrong basket, shouldn't the coach counsel that player and tell him to keep his head in the game? And after counseling, if that player rejects the instruction and says, "No I will continue to shoot at the wrong basket because it suits me fine", then would it not be appropriate for the coach to bench that player or even kick him off the team? We all know the answer to that.

Published by: eric m
canton,ohio,U.S.A. 11/25/2009 01:32 PM EST

Published by: Mary
St Francis Ks usa 11/25/2009 12:12 PM EST

Thank you Bishop Tobin. More spiritual leaders need to speak out. (Boston comes to mind.) Several newspapers in Kansas carried the discussions between the Kansas Bishop and former Governor Kathleen Seibelus about her stand on abortion. She vetoed several pro-life bills. (She received money from Dr. Tiller and had a "party" for him at the governor's mansion.)

Published by: Fr. Cory Sticha
Circle, MT 11/25/2009 11:41 AM EST

Emily, as you're giving a list of "please consider"s, please also consider that Bishop Tobin did *not* seek to make this a political issue. In fact, he kept his conversation with Rep. Kennedy private until the good Rep. chose to make it public. What was the Bishop supposed to do then? Sit there and say nothing because "Oh dear, this is a political issue"? The Bishop did his job. Rep. Kennedy was made to look like a fool by his own actions, not the actions of the Bishop. Also please consider that Catholics are to have their faith influence every moment of their lives, including and especially their jobs. A doctor is not to set aside his faith to do his job, a lawyer is not to set aside his faith to do his job, and if a politician doesn't think he can allow his faith to influence his decisions, then he needs to find another job.

Published by: Thomas
NY,NY 11/25/2009 10:57 AM EST

Rate: Regular

While Roff is not a Catholic, it's worth noting that he is a champion of Conservatism...and with regard to abortion, the Church and the Right are in agreement. It would be wrong for practicing Catholics, despite what Roff says about "'free thinking' about doctrinal issues," to not examine what the Church's doctrine implies, whether or not that implication is in line with Christ's Cross and if that implication is conducive to the Kingdom of God. There are roughly 1 billion Catholics around the globe, millions of priests and thousands of bishops. To imagine that the Catechism is read universally the same way in its many translated languages and many cultures is a comforting untruth. Bishop Tobin is out of step with countless clergy around the world, because here we view abortion and the Eucharist as luxuries for bartering. This are issues of survival outside of the West. The Church stopped legislating thought in the 80's when it told Hawking to avoid examination of the Big Bang. Christ was not a politician crucified for ideas and a voting record. Nor was He a freedom fighter raging against the Roman, Gentile, and Jewish practice of Exposure. He helped where help was accepted and let everything else fall where it would. Believing that His Father had a plan, politics and legislation were some of the last things to leave his lips: "Love God... Do unto others... Whoever is not against us is for us..."

Published by: Mary Ann
Moulton TX USA 11/25/2009 10:49 AM EST

I think that more and more Catholics even, not just some of the clear-thinking non-Catholics, are realizing that Bishop Tobin and other good bishops like him are correct in speaking out on this issue. New Evangelization come faster!

Published by: Kaisar
canada 11/25/2009 10:42 AM EST

Thank God for the voice of truth no matter who utters it, whether a Catholic or a non-Catholic. Thank God for all the faithful Bishops we still have in the Church. God bless Bishop Tobin and I hope other bishops can take some notes.

Published by: GerryL
Land O Lakes, FL 11/25/2009 09:51 AM EST

Kennedy is a typical "Cafeteria Catholic" just like Pelosi and unfortunately a big number of people who claim themselves to be a Catholic - Christians. They pick the one they like and discard the ones that do not fit their lifestyle - and in Kennedy's case - political agenda.

Published by: Meh
CT 11/25/2009 09:31 AM EST

Rate: Regular

If they're supposed to listen to their churches before doing their jobs then we should take care to never vote in anyone who claims to be a Catholic. The last thing we need is someone who cares more about what professional celibates in Italy think than the folks they are supposed to represent.

Published by: Emily
Kentucky 11/25/2009 09:22 AM EST

Rate: Bad

Roff's expertise is politics, specifically from the right. This article neglects to mention his connection to Let Freedom Ring whose agenda is avowedly conservative in terms of economics and "traditional values" In this case, he has moved out of his area, politics and into the area of Roman Catholic pastoral practice, private, and ecclesiology. As you ponder his willingness to cross over in to this area, please also reflect on Bishop Tobin's cross over into politics whose nature is public, not private. Please also consider the logical conclusion of Bishop Tobin's entrance into the public arena. It took John Kennedy most of his life to argue, ultimately successfully, that a Roman Catholic's private faith did not mean its imposition on a public purpose. A Roman Catholic could be both true to his faith and to his constituents. Bishop Tobin's November 11 correspondence with Kennedy is an entry into the legal/political field and, in the end asserts that, for a Roman Catholic politician, his faith and its tenets as put forth from Rome, must in all cases valued as first order by Rome, must override his responsibility to the US constitution and his constituents. Please consider, we now have 5 Roman Catholic judges on the Supreme Court. Would Tobin require that they judge in accordance with the dictates of their faith, overriding the U.S. Constitution? We have Roman Catholic jurors who are called everyday to judge on the basis of law. Will they be able to continue?

Published by: Mary
Jersey City/NJ/USA 11/25/2009 08:29 AM EST

If Kennedy cannot obey to God Who said, "Thou Shall Not Kill", and if Kennedy cannot obey to His Church telling him Not to receive Communion, then he should go out and make his own god and his own church. Don't say, "I am Catholic but I don't care about what Catholic Doctrines".

Published by: JCM
Pensacola, FL 11/25/2009 08:11 AM EST

It is truly a sad state of affairs when even non-Catholics can look in from the outside of our Church and recognize the "absolute truths" that it stands for, while many Catholics still waver on the fences trying to pick and choose truths for themselves. On the other hand, maybe it is the perspective that we need. The day has come to choose what is most important, and whether or not we want to be counted among the righteous.

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