He explained that the saint's "insight" was that being touched by grace fundamentally changes, affects a person: "Who is not touched by grace may be a person without blemish and without fear, as they say, but he will never be like a person whom grace has touched."
From there, Scalfari asked Pope Francis if he himself feels touched by grace. The Roman Pontiff replied, "No one can know that. Grace is not part of consciousness, it is the amount of light in our souls, not knowledge nor reason."
Pope Francis added that grace can be given to those without faith, those who do not believe, because "grace has to do with the soul." Although Scalfari said he does not believe in the soul, the Pope said, "You do not believe in it but you have one."
Scalfari responded by revisiting their mutual admission that neither of them were trying to convert the other, which allowed a discussion of the nature of dialogue and inter-personal relationship.
"Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense," said Pope Francis. "We need to get to know each other, to listen to each other and improve our knowledge of the world around us."
Following an encounter with another person, the Pope said, he at times wants another encounter, because it has led to both new ideas and new needs in himself. "This is important: to get to know people, to listen, to expand the circle of ideas."